Comments on: Disturbances of Character: The Most Pressing Issue of Our Age?

By: Dr George Simon, PhD

Dr George Simon, PhD — Wed, 05 May 2010 12:53:57 +0000

Hi, Diane. I hope you’ll appreciate that I really cannot give you direct advice in this forum. And perhaps you won’t fully appreciate the guidelines I’m about to reinforce, but here goes:

Investing any emotional, mental, or physical time and energy trying to make something happen that you don’t have direct power over is not only futile but also the “formula” for psychological torture and eventually, depression.

Remember, the “war” with dominance-seeking personalities is always a war for “position,” power, and self-glorification. And it takes more than one person to have a war. You have to pick your “battles” carefully. For the really toxic interactions, you have to set firm limits and boundaries. But for the garden variety events in which your kids are not likely to be scarred for life, it’s probably in the best interest of all to let things be.

You simply cannot control every potential shaping influence your children are likely to face in life. Nor will you ever win in a war of personal vindication and “exposure” (read: defeat) of the CA people in your life.

You must decide when you have to go to the mat and when you simply must surrender to a higher power. For some, knowing that the CA people in life are somehow still “getting away with it” is an intolerable circumstance that invites much destructive anger and bitterness. But in the end, all we have the power to do is to exercise good judgment about the battles we wage, make sure that when we fight it’s always about crucial principles as opposed to personal vindication or victory itself, and do our best to model for our children what principled self-assertion is really all about. : )

By: Diane

Diane — Wed, 05 May 2010 02:52:19 +0000

Dr. Simon,

Thank you for your response. I have already been watching for the release of your upcoming book on Character Disturbance with great anticipation.

I am still wondering if you have any thoughts on protecting my children from their very, very CA gradmother. She works her “magic” on them as well. They just don’t know it. She is a beloved member of the entire community and the “best darn grandma that ever lived!” Everything she does with them is BIG and fabulous. But it’s to “show them a better life” as she’s said to people. She also lies to them readily about things that don’t require even being mentioned, let alone being lied about. She manipulates them, pits them against eachother, breeds jealousy, plays favorites and basically says and shows them that she is better than everyone else etc., etc. My 10 year old is already showing many of her personality traits that I will refrain from listing. I wonder how much is nurture (exposure) and how much is nature.
So as I mentioned before, I can set limits for myself and how she treats me, but if we allow contact wtih her, we really can’t control how she acts around the kids and what she says to them. I don’t think a direct, “I don’t want you to lie to or manipulate my kids” will cut it. Denial and white hot fury!! And she continues on as usual.
Do you think there is anything we can do besides avoid her like the plague in regards to our kids?

By: Dr George Simon, PhD

Dr George Simon, PhD — Tue, 04 May 2010 18:53:03 +0000

Hi, Diane. You have no idea how much your thoughtful comments mean to me. The validation you experienced reading my works is the very reason I persist in them. Hopefully, you’ll experience the same thing when my new book on character disturbance becomes available in late July. It’s the culmination of all my most recent efforts at helping overly conscientious folks who want to see only the good in folks understand all of the various responsibility-challenged people in their lives. : )

By: Diane

Diane — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:49:10 +0000

Dr. Simon,
I was so glad to find your term “covert-aggressive” as well as your book, “In Sheep’s Clothing.” In recent years, I have discovered that I am dealing with THE poster child for covert-aggressive personalities. This family member is slick. Everything is under the guise of ‘helping’ when you didn’t want or need help in the first place. Every interaction involves a “good us…bad them” story (if only these people she badmouths knew, when they think the sun rises and sets with her … as I did … as we all have.) I want desperately to give you 10 years worth of in depth detail, but there isn’t enough room for that. I will TRY to sum it up.
Since having kids, I have felt a constant tug-of-war with her. She started bulldozing and undermining me…with a smile, of course. It was nothing you could make sound bad if you tried to tell someone. She also started taking the kids without asking, only to feign surprise and innocence, saying, “you mean she [the daughter maybe 5 years old] didn’t tell you?” when my husband finally told her she needed to ask us before she could take them. Then she became patronizing, “You have to ask the BOSS….Mommy’s the BOSS..did you ask her?”
Apparently, everything with her is calculated. In recent years of having some inside information and being able to compare stories and notes and current events, I learned why she hums to babies. When I had my first baby and she (MIL) was actively involved..at our house all weekend every weekend, stopping by after work during the week, helping us pick out baby furniture etc during the pregnancy..when I thought we were closer than ever, she was whining to people that we were going to cut her out of our lives. That blew me away! So she once told someone that that is why she hums to babies now. It wasn’t just because they’re so sweet and you enjoy them like most people, but because she wanted the poor little baby to have warm feelings about her if she ever heard her name or saw a picture, I guess, because we were going to cut her out. Nothing could’ve been further from the truth at that point, and she knew it. She had TOTAL control over us at that point. It’s only NOW, 10 years later and a MUCH wiser me, that I desperately want to cut her out.
We could’ve written the book, “In Sheep’s Clothing!” Nothing in there surprised me. It was GREAT to be professionally validated, but luckily, I had already found proof and validation with another family member, and we had already defined all the tactics.
What I needed was to know HOW to deal with this CA personality. The book lays it out. Be direct, set limits, judge actions, not intentions etc. Very difficult stuff for me. I WANT to belive there’s good in people. I am not comfortable being assertive. I could do it for myself, right? But HOW do I protect my kids? I can set limits in what she does and the time she spends with them. I CAN’T control what she she says to them or how she manipulates them. They can’t see it for themselves.

By: Jane

Jane — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:16:56 +0000

Dr. Simon,
Thank you for your answer and suggestions. I will read through your website. For the time being I seem to have managed to stay away, although I’m not sure the way I did it was the best way (I pretty much told him what I thought as decently as I could. I can only hope it’ll do him more good than harm supposing he can take it constructively. I’m still fighting my conscience (who am I to judge after all), but I did the best I could under the circumstances. The whole experience taught me a lot, yet it has left a bitter taste in my mouth that I just have to live with.

Dr. Simon, all the best to you and your readers.

By: Dr George Simon, PhD

Dr George Simon, PhD — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:43:18 +0000

Hi, Jane. Sorry to be just responding. You do yourself a great service by remaining civil while enforcing limits. You would do yourself a great disservice by taking any burden whatsoever that is the rightful duty of your ex to get his act together. In an earlier part of the series on character disturbance, I contrasted the huge difference in characteristics as well as therapy needs between individuals best described as “neurotic” to some degree and those struggling with character disturbance. You might find that particular part of the series helpful.

By: Jane

Jane — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:19:03 +0000

Dr. Simon, hello again…
I want to start by saying that I’m not proud of returning to post a comment here. But I can’t seem to be able to shake off that relationship I was telling you about. I’ve been trying to keep away but all efforts have been useless as my ex contacted me trying to get back together and although I have denied seeing him I do respond to emails and I do answer his phone calls. I just feel responsible in some way to warn him about his condition and maybe this will trigger something and push him in the direction of seeking professional help. I have found myself reading a lot about it online… I have even started to think I might not be all that different! (I’ve stumbled over a book called “Malignant Self-love” which describes women who fall in love with narcissistic men as “inverted narcissists”… which I have to admit does seem to explain the strange “we’re meant to be together” feeling I’ve had since the beginning of this relationship despite all the red flags…) That has really thrown me off for a loop… So now I have no idea what to do. On the one hand it is definitely over. On the other hand, I want to at least give him some clues so that maybe he’ll do something about it eventually.
Do you think it’s a decent idea to make him visit websites on this topic? Could that have any sort of positive impact??

Thanks again for reading my posts and for being kind enough to answer them.

By: Dr George Simon, PhD

Dr George Simon, PhD — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:22:55 +0000

You’re welcome, Jane. And I really like your comment about it being ultimately dangerous and disrespectful to chase after a person who is not really asking for change. Not only do people in abusive relationships make this mistake, but helping professionals are guilty of it, too.

A social worker friend of mine told this joke at a regional conference: “Two social workers were walking along a New York street when a purse snatcher whisked by and snatched their purses right out of their hands. They gave chase, shouting loudly to passers by: ‘Stop that man! Stop that man! He’s obviously troubled and in dire need of our help’!”

It wouldn’t be so funny if there weren’t a kernel of truth in it. : )

By: Jane

Jane — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:23:28 +0000

Thank you for your answer, Dr. Simon.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the issue I was writing you about. I’ve given up on the relationship although something tells me I could have made it work had I dedicated myself to it entirely. Although I was reading another post of yours in which you were saying that it’s vane to think one can change another person that deeply. I’ve also come to realize it can be dangerous and disrespectful. Unless the person comes and asks for help and in that case you should indicate a professional. It’s a shame because I do see the nice qualities my ex has. However, I’ve come to realize that the only thing I can do is hope that life will run its course and he will improve on his own.
Thanks again.

By: Dr George Simon, PhD

Dr George Simon, PhD — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:32:23 +0000

Hi, Jane. There are treatments available. Naturally, making personality changes is always challenging because by definition personality is a cluster of relatively ingrained and enduring traits and patterns. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be modified. But traditional forms of counseling are fairly useless. The “metaphors” upon which traditional approaches are based and the techniques used are inadequate to address the problems of the deficient character. Besides that, there has to be at least some degree of internal distress in the disturbed character if he or she is to remain motivated through treatment. My upcoming book “Disturbances of Character” will include some vignettes of the radical therapeutic approach required for dealing with character issues.