“Leveling as a Manipulation Tactic” Comments, Page 2
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36 Responses (9 Discussion Threads) to “Leveling as a Manipulation Tactic”
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11
Would you say then that these folks generally end up leaving therapy (more often than not), for instance…. just agreeing to go because their spouse threatened to leave them and going through the motions for a short time and then quitting once the spouse calms down?
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11.1
Yes, more often than not the motivation is just not there. If the counseling is steeped in traditional paradigms, sometimes they’ll “play along” but do nothing meaningful. If the counseling adopts the newer frameworks designed for character disturbance, they might find the enterprise a challenge and invest for awhile at least. Until and unless they come to that “aha” experience in which they honestly reckon with what a train wreck their life is (and what damage they’ve done to others) as a result of their coping style, they’re not likely to invest.
By far, however, the biggest issue in treatment is making interpretations of their behavior that are based on traditional metaphors and assumptions. The disordered character knows the therapist is on the wrong track, so this gives them a tactical advantage and they’re likely to “play” the therapist (and anyone else involved in the counseling) for all their worth.
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11.2
Oops! I meant, all THEY’RE worth!
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11.3
I’m currently in college majoring in Psych and they are NOT teaching this, at least not at the under-grad level. They are teaching that these are traditional defense mechanisms, and not conscious manipulation, as you have mentioned.
Whenever I read your articles, I have narcissists in mind, because that’s who I know best from my personal life.
My father (narcissist + possibly anti-social) did the I’ll-go-to-therapy-thing for about 2 months after a huge blow-up at home and then was suddenly “cured” and never went back. He died never having had an aha moment.
I’m not sure I’ll be able to treat these individuals once I’m a psychologist because of all their nonsense.
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11.4
Take heart, Cyndi. Traditional metaphors are like the “monster” in the B-Grade horror movies. You throw everything at them and they still won’t die. The same people that gave you “defense mechanisms” gave you “cold mothers” producing autistic kids, “mixed message-giving mothers” producing schizophrenic kids, and girls who were probably molested really being “hysterical” because they couldn’t deal with their unconscious lust for their fathers. Despite all this obvious hogwash, the metaphors survive. They have their applicability for sure (with true neurotics), but it is very limited, especially in the age of character disturbance.
Actually, treating disturbed characters is relatively straightforward and relatively effective believe it or not, especially if you approach it from the correct framework. Using traditional methods to do it is analogous to attempting brain surgery with a dentist’s appliances.
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11.5
That’s a good metaphor….dentist’s appliances for brain surgery! :)
I’m less than 2 years into my own therapy so maybe I’ll feel differently by the time I’m done with that and school. Right now, the idea of dealing with a narcissist, even on a professional level, just seems exhausting!
Thanks for your encouragement.
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Darin
12Dr. Simon,
I probably should have read your series of articles BEFORE posting! I spent a good part of yesterday evening and this morning reading through and taking notes and (this is not a seduction mind you!) ordered ‘Sheep’s Clothing’ which will arrive in a few days. Your article on leveling makes much more sense to me now in the context of character disturbances vs. personality, etc.
I’m thinking how interesting it would be to hear your off the record thoughts of those of us posting on blogs although I can probably extrapolate a close approximation.
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12.1
I appreciate all the comments more than you know. My book was published independently and only became a 14 year bestseller because of grass roots support. The blog posts and comments have really enhanced that support. I also appreciate the critical comments, even those that fairly aggressively attack my positions (especially with regard to how unhelpful traditional metaphors and paradigms are with respect to dealing with character disturbance). It gives me a chance to elaborate on and advance the principles and values I’ve come to hold. It’s both heartening and validating to make converts even if it is sometimes one at a time.
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Darin12.2
I stumbled upon your postings and this site while trying to work out an internal response to a neighbor’s assertion to me that ‘everybody needs to be in therapy.’
I was in a ‘writing group’ for a few sessions that was a misrepresented therapy group. I was actually interested in doing some creative writing and went through an interview with two LCSW facilitators and directly asked at the interview if it was a ‘therapy group’ and was assured that ‘no, it’s a writing group, but issues may come up.’ It turns out that it was all about issues and only one other participant other than myself actually wrote anything in advance (and only once at that) based on the assigned writing exercises. The other participants (about a 50% attendance rate) were all ‘diagnosed’ with various mental health conditions and wanted to talk about the issues they were facing in their lives. One of the biggest issues, as you might imagine, was that nobody was able to write. The biggest revealed implement to writing was that parents, teachers, past partners, etc., had all been critical or abusive in the past and the two hour ‘group meetings’ digressed quickly into a competitive presentation of who had been abused, mistreated, denigrated, marginalized, not encouraged, criticized, etc, the most. After the fourth meeting when I was once again the only participant who had written anything, I talked to the ‘facilitators’ and said that the nature of the ‘writing group’ had been misrepresented and I wasn’t interested in being in a therapy group with this particular group of people. One of the ‘facilitators’ admitted that they let me into the group to provide ‘diversity.’ Um, thanks.
I’ve thought about it and talked with my close friends, but really didn’t see any proverbial red flags in advance. I do have to admit that it was interesting to see manipulating, avoidance, and enabling in action.
Back to the neighbor who said that ‘everybody needs to be in therapy.’ I gave him a copy of one of the exercises ‘Childhood memory using the five senses’ that I’d written (thinking he’d like the topic) and told him that I’d left the ‘writing’ group because I didn’t want to be in a therapy group. That’s when he ‘came out’ as a clinically depressed, recovering addict (I didn’t ask what he was recovering from/with), support group junkie, and said that EVERYBODY needs to be in therapy or they are in denial. I intuitively realized that he was equating himself with myself (garden variety neurotic!) and that’s when I wondered if there was a term for what he was doing. After a bit of Googling, I discovered that he was ‘leveling.’ He also said that he just assumed that I was in therapy, because ‘you’re so normal.’ Maybe some flattery and seduction? He also wanted to tell me his ‘story’ but fortunately, the red flags went up and I extricated myself.
My friends and family enjoyed the creative writing that I did and despite the experience, will keep doing for the enjoyment of it.
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Darin13
Oops, typo! The biggest impediment to writing… Not the biggest implement to writing…
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Sara
14Hi Dr.,
I have zero trust in and consequently respect for “authority” because I see and have seen it so frequently abused, particularly in my own family. Consequently, this really has affected my character. I generally tend to give lip service, but deep down, I resent the power differential – but it’s not because I want power, but because I fear the abuse of it – I think I even fear my own abuse of it, which is one of the reasons I am so incredibly avoidant. I think I do have a character disorder – but I’m not aggressive – at least not consciously. I guess my question is if you think I’m one of the people you’re describing, and I’m serious.
If you have time to answer my question, I’d appreciate it.
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14.1
Hi, Sara. Great question! The misuse and abuse of authority is a leading cause of family and social dysfunction and can indeed negatively impact someone’s character development. The situation you describe appears rooted in some very understandable “anxiety” about putting yourself in a position to be potentially abused. This puts you in a different category than the type of character I depict in this article. That type of character is driven solely by the desire to dominate as opposed to a fear of being abused. Nonetheless, regardless of the origin of the difficulty, not being able to relate to authority in a healthy manner is a character trait that can cause difficulties in social and occupational relationships and probably needs some attention. Your awareness of the issue, its basis in fear, the fact that you don’t consciously aggress, etc. all suggest your personality issues are more “neurotic” in character. I previously posted a series articles on the differences between more neurotic personalities and individuals with character disorders. Sometimes, people with certain tendencies and “issues” can look the same on the outside, but neurotics and disturbed characters differ tremendously at their core. Besides that, neurotics profit from traditional psychotherapeutic means to help them heal and can more easily overcome their difficulties.
Thanks for the question. I hope this response and my prior posts will help answer it for you.
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Gwendolyn Wehage
15Hello Dr. Simon,
I have a son in law who uses what seem to be very subtle tactics to undermine my relationship with our daughter. Whenever my daughter and I make plans, when he hears of them he tells her of other plans he has that would not allow us to be together.When my husband and I took a trip to Israel, I flew to Hawaii to see them at their home and took the photos from the trip with me. My daughter acted bored and my son in law fell asleep.
My daughter and son in law threw a party for my husband’s 60th birthday a couple of years ago and there are no plans for my 60th in two weeks.
I received a mother’s day card from our daughter with only her name on it but on father’s day my husband got a card with both my daughter and her husband’s names and all the children.
I was told by my son in law that my husband was his favorite person. I didn’t think to ask him why, but I did wonder why he said that to me, since i am treated very differently than my husband.
20 years ago I corrected our son in law over something he did, my husband did not back me up, and ever since then I have been held in low regard.
I did not contact my daughter and her new husband the first year after that, so they are careful not to be blatant with their subtle put downs, in order to keep my husband in their life. My husband sees all this too now after many years of being convinced that I was a trouble maker.
I looked up words like Narcissism because I wasn’t sure of what I was seeing, an am now convinced that anyone who would correct them, would be dismissed and ignored.
Dr. Simon, am I seeing a deliberate act of aggression here, although very subtle, so subtle in fact that anyone looking on may not realize it is happening?
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15.1
For a variety of reasons, it’s simply impossible to make an accurate assessment of anyone’s particular situation so remotely, and equally impossible to provide accurate, direct advice. However, you might find an elaboration on some fundamental principles helpful:
We all do an awful lot more “fighting” in life than we care to admit. And many of the ways we do it are subtle and underhanded. And while some individuals are prone to fight for no cause other than the fact that their personality predisposes them to seek the one-up position in all encounters, most of us fight because we want something or because we’re angry about something. It sure sounds like your relationship with these individuals is different in character from the relationship your husband has. That suggests that there are some “issues” to be resolved, whether it be the lingering effects of old wounds, a clash of personality styles, etc. And neither finger-pointing nor second-guessing will resolve the issues. As hard as it might be to do, confronting the issues head-on (but in a civil, productive, and genuine way) is the only way to make changes. And of course you have to be willing to accept the notion that there might be some things about your own style of interacting that need modifying.
I hope these general principles prove to be of help to you.
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Gwendolyn Wehage16
Thank you Dr. Simon, I appreciate very much your insight, and will keep reading while waiting to discover the answer.
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