Comments on “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

171 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

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• 

  Deb

  11th May 2008

  90

  Wendy, Margaret, Mack, Morris,

  Is this the last chapter and the end?
  Again, you all have proven that you know exactly what you are talking about. I think the last part of your prediction has come true. Below is my daughters last conversation with her ex. He has been nothing but sweet to her during the 6 months he’s been trying to get her back, and out of nowhere, the mean cycle comes? Am I to think that this is the “dropping you like a rock” stage when he decides he’s given up? Is he embarrased that he tried so hard? Because we can’t think of any reason he would want to hurt her after he asked to be friends and they have been “socially polite” to each other all this time. He has not contacted her since he got his new gf 5 weeks ago and then this comes out of the blue. Appreciate your thoughts on this and if this is his last stage? It just seems to me that when someone is happy with their life (& his new gf) why would they try to put someone else down without provocation? He then deleted her from his myspace friends, along with all his other ex’s. This all kind of shocked my daughter (didn’t upset her – just surprised as to why) so any clues on what he is trying to do would be helpful.

  On-line messages: These were over the course of a few days.

  ”From: Him
  Date: May 4, 2008 10:38 PM
  hey, how have u been doing ?

  From: Her
  very good, how bout you?

  From: Him
  im doing wonderful, im gonna be graduating soon, and im getting a 50000 dollar scholarship from the marines plus a 7500 dollar shipping bonus

  From Her
  ohh thats good =]
  i signed with reallly good agencies in Tampa and Orlando.. so that makes 3 for now and its everything i could ever ask for!

  From Him:
  Wow. I’m surprised anyone would sign u

  From Her:
  excuse me? i cant believe you would have the nerve to say that to me”

  P.S. to Margaret. Our conversation about getting a better gf each time? We’ll he’s for sure climbing the social ladder…his new gf is EXTREMELY wealthy, debutant type. His family is extremely not wealthy, with issues as you know. It’s kind of scary that they can hide their problems so well and actually impress other people.

• 

  MiaFran

  7th May 2008

  89

  Anyone,

  Adults are just obsolete children and the hell with them.

  – Dr. Seuss

  I want to avoid becoming an obsolete child, but I think I’m doomed.

• 

  MiaFran

  7th May 2008

  88

  Nicholas and Everyone,

  Some points you brought out about the competitiveness in your relationship ring true with me. It’s not that I felt I was better than my ex, but that he needed to be higher than I in other’s eyes. A lot of control issues and manipulation here.

  On being used by the other for the benefits of the marriage vows, the fact still remains, God knows where my heart was in the situation. Also, I have had the opportunity to raise the kids. Good enough for me!

  Marriage relationship takes a ton of work especially when kids are involved, but was very rewarding to me, personally.

  As a result of leaving my psychologically abusive husband, my two oldest children have informed me that they don’t want any contact with me for the next two years because I am wrong for leaving. They want to protect their spouses and kids from any confusion I’m causing by leaving their dad.

  So, do I go back? Going back, I would not be guaranteed my kids affection, nor my husband’s.

  I would be guaranteed continued punishment from both for leaving in the first place.

  I explained to my oldest son that the responsibility of our marriage and it’s failures and successes rest on his dad’s and my shoulders not his, and any wrongs we have done, although damaging to them, is for us to make amends for.

  So for the next two years I will be growing and starting over. I’m ok with that.

• 

  MiaFran

  7th May 2008

  87

  Nicholas,

  Take very good care of yourself and heal before you embark on another relationship. It sounds like you already are.
  The time you spend will be well worth it.

  There is a bunch of great reading on dating and finding the “right one” for you, if that suits you.

  Good Luck!

• 

  Nicholas

  7th May 2008

  86

  All,

  I just wanted to thank you for responding with such insightful posts. I’m still, even months later, basking in the afterthought and while I am trying to avoid thoughts of the ex there are many times where I am piecing things together and seeing that even a few years before we broke up things were building up to get to where we are now. While I am still wrapping my head around the fact that she is / will be with other men, I’m also sort of relieved that I no longer have the burden of having to accept or explain her flaws to those around me. Making excuses for her to myself and my family and close friends is something I cannot ever do again. You must never allow someone to use you and enjoy your best qualities while consistently putting you down. I see now she has been nothing short of jealous of me for a long time because of what I am and what I have, and she would consistently try to make me feel bad about myself, even if it was in a playful manner there are always underlying motivations.

  Often times you don’t allow yourself to see or accept the reality of how a person is behaving. This is the number one thing I will take from my experience with my ex. In future relationships, if I see a strong sign of character-level traits that I cannot accept this will be a deal breaker. I will not simply overlook them.

  I’m lucky that this was just a relationship, albeit 4 significant years, and there was no marriage or kids involved. Thanks to everyone and good luck to each of you that is dealing with suffering through a breakup. I’m going to the gym regularly and trying to change myself for the better now that I can and will focus on the most important person in the world (ME)

• 

  Wendy

  6th May 2008

  85

  Way to go Morris! Thanks for keeping in touch.

• 

  Morris

  6th May 2008

  84

  Hello everyone,

  My apologies for being away from the site so long. The main reason is that I am doing positive things and keeping busy in a constructive way.

  I am approaching D-day plus 2 months! It is hard to believe that I escaped from my situation very close to 2 months ago. About the only regret I have about leaving is not doing it sooner. Perhaps I waited a bit too long, but at least I have no intention of going back to my wife. I am still in therapy; my next major step will be a milestone in my life. I want to learn more about myself; it takes 2 to “tango” in these relationships, I want to learn to pick better dance partners! As you may already know, I married late in life and this is my 2nd divorce in 5 years; I realize the pattern and personalities I was attracted to.

  The divorce/settlement negotiations were better than expected. Both lawyers knew each other; this made the negotiations smoother. This time, I realized the need to get a lawyer that would stand up for me. I was in one room with my lawyer, my wife in another room. No face to face contact; I didn’t want to be manipulated by her during the negotiations. My wife did try to get me to come back; she wrote E-mails that both my lawyer and therapist found to be inappropriate and manipulative; my therapist said that my wife was right “up there”. My wife’s lawyer was the go-between in the negotiations. Before we started, my lawyer asked and I concurred, for him to tell the other lawyer that this was no snap decision on my part to divorce my wife. He explained that it took almost a year for me to get to this point and that in my opinion I was being abused and that my wife had a Personality disorder. My lawyer returned to me a few minutes later with a smile on his face; he said that his counterpart told him that my wife was crying her eyes out and told her lawyer that I had a girlfriend and that is why I am leaving! Case in point; she is trying to justify the abuse and coming up with an imaginary girl friend.

  The negotiations were more or less smooth; my wife is getting a pretty decent settlement. Again, having a good lawyer helped immensely; when the other lawyer saw that I was willing to make concessions, to a point, we were able to hammer out a settlement in a few hours.

  The hardest choice and the most difficult day was my freedom day of 2 months ago. My feelings of guilt are on the wane; my therapist says that my reaction is very healthy and she is pleased that I have no intention of going back for another punishing round. Those of you out there take note of my last statement; to many of you do go back for more punishment! My therapist told me to still be wary and vigilant until the papers are signed; she warned me to stay away and have little if any contact and not see my wife face to face until the divorce is settled. She said that she has had many male clients that were hurt badly with false abuse charges; part of my guilt was leaving then filing the same day. Like Margaret said, it can be a war zone so take no prisoners. Same day divorce filing protected me from potential false allegations. I was too needy after my 1st divorce and married my current wife close to 2 years later; much too soon. I do have many female friends but cannot fathom a relationship with a woman in the near future; my therapist says that this is a healthy reaction. I need time to heal and quite frankly, reprogram myself to be attracted to and be attracted by healthy individuals.

  Time to leave and go for a workout this is something that would have lead to a bad fight a few months ago. Then go home to my small apartment; wife is living in the condo for the next few months, I am footing the bill. I mention this only to say that my settlement was expensive but could have been much worse. Also, I have my life back and didn’t let things go too long; I still have my health. My marriage was not all bad; my wife was passionate, beautiful, a great cook and homemaker for 80% of the time. It was the other 20%, the cycle of abuse that killed the marriage.

• 

  Morris

  5th May 2008

  83

  Hi Charles,

  Please refer to the article I just wrote to Nicholas; I am no therapist, however, have been to therapy. My perception is that you are doing better that you think.

  If you read the articles here, the one common theme is that the “loser” men and women never, never acknowledge their behavior nor do they ever want to improve. They go from relationship to relationship, marriage to marriage without ever realizing that they are pushing away those that love them.

  The best recommendation that I have is to go to a therapist whom will help you work on the traits that you think you are exhibiting. In my opinion, you are not a loser; you do want to change.

• 

  Morris

  5th May 2008

  82

  Hi Nicholas,

  I too, developed during my marriage and admit to having traits of losers; the key is traits. In my opinion, a qualification of losers (or, my preference, abusers), it that a true loser will never never never admit that they have any issues!

  You mentioned that it takes 2 to tango in these type of relationships; I call it the dance of abuse. The parties can get caught up in this, still, at least you know that what is transpiring is wrong; your partner doesn’t nor will she ever admit it. When I was with my wife, I started to lose my temper both with her, her son and even at work. At home, I started to swear back at her, slam doors like her. The one positive aspect was the realization of being at the end of my rope. My therapist was concerned that I may lose it and do something really stupid. I started to take traquillizers and lock myself away in the bathroom when my wife started to/did lose it; once the tranks took affect, I would calm down and tell my wife that I am leaving and will be back in a few hours to give us both a chance to calm down.

  You also mentioned the “mean sweet mean sweet” phased of your girl friend; please look up the “cycle of abuse” on the internet. The cycle of abuse will drive anyone over the edge!

  Realize that true losers will want to continue the “abuse dance” indefinitely. You have had many break-ups with your GF; there were no changes in her behavior. No one is perfect. We all make mistakes and non-losers want to learn from them to avoid similar situations in the future. Losers don’t learn; they blame others and will never, never acknowledge their issues and the harm they cause those that love them.

• 

  MiaFran

  4th May 2008

  81

  Dr. Carver,

  “Parents who participate in purposefully alienating their children from the other parent — when there is no legal, criminal, abusive, or emotional justification to protect them from that parent — are often the controlling individual in the relationship. Sadly, they view punishing the ex-spouse as more important than the emotional development of the child and feel justified to use the children to retaliate.”

  These comments from “Just Ask” page to a question are very helpful to me personally.

  After leaving my manipulative/controlling husband last month, he proceeded to use his religious beliefs and self pity to rein in our adult children and so now, enjoys their ’support’. Although I was able to tell them a little of what has gone on, and even though they have observed some of his paranoid/schizophrenic (he is passive-agg.)behavior, they still feel obligated to see to his needs for constant attention and affirmation. I previously enjoyed their company and activities with each of them and have a tremendous positive memory bank, loaded with all of the experiences raising them. I was a stay at home mother and homeschooled for 9 years, working part time some of the time.

  All the while raising our kids I was aware of his neediness, and overcompensated for his terrible outlook, his odd beliefs, his perception of me and everyone else, while trying to remain supportive and hopeful. In the bible it says that love believes the best about others. That is just normal, right? Love hopes the best for others. That’s normal too. I like being on the NORMAL side of things; it’s a lot easier and more fun. But there is in all relationships, a give and take that is a normal function.
  Not for him. Just take take take, all w/o any gratitude.

  This is the 1st week since he was served the divorce papers and I’ve backed off to cool down and rest.
  I continue with counseling, as needed and support network of divorce care group and friends. I’ve been prepared, intellectually for what was to come, so I am adjusting to that.

  The one thing I will have trouble with is the kids rejection of me. I love each of them and will do my best to continue contacting them and celebrating their accomplishments with them, although I know it will take extra effort now.

  My spouse never stuck up for me, backed me up in the discipline of our kids, encouraged them or me in any way. He sure was good at using embarrassment to control me, making a scene at restaurants then leaving me there, etc., etc., etc.

  God, what a CREEP. No Stockholm Syndrome here!

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