365 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

1. 

   Wendy

   321

   31st October 2008

   Hi Mark,

   Well, these people do real damage to us, and damage does take time to heal. It takes a lot of energy to put the pieces back in their proper places, and to simply leave behind things that cannot be reconciled. We’re not used to this – most people in our lives behave quite differently (hallelujah!), so the stress we go through in these situations, and in the aftermath, is quite significant.

   The really good thing, though, is that you say you are sleeping well. The catch-22 when we are upset is that we often can’t sleep, which just makes everything get worse. One of the first signs of emotional healing is being able to get a good sleep. So you are on the right road, and I think you can expect to start feeling better before long.

   Hang in! Best wishes,
   ~Wendy
2. 

   Christina

   322

   31st October 2008

   Hi Ann,

   Thank you for your response. It is still possible at this point that we might settle out of court, but I have a feeling that things won’t go that cooperatively. Part of me feel like I need to go back and get some sort of ‘closure’ (although it probably won’t constitute that). Fortunately my sister said she would come with me for moral support if I have to go and has some airline vouchers we could use. I am also worried that it won’t look very good for me (he owes me a lot of money)if I don’t present myself.
3. 

   Christina

   323

   31st October 2008

   Hi Mark,

   I am going through something similar. It seems to happen that I emotionally work through everything that happened by the end of the day only to find that the reality is just as difficult the next morning. It has been about the same amount of time for me and am also hoping it will get easier. Part of the problem, or perhaps most of the problem seems to be that their values and corresponding behavior just doesn’t make any sense to us. I guess it is getting the heart to accept that it will never make any real sense AND be able to move on. I think that the moving on part is the hardest.

   What has been helping me a little is understanding those who have been abused (I have been doing a lot of reading on this). Especially if someone was abused as a child it seems that it profoundly affects how people operate and view the world the rest of their lives. If it is never dealt with then it inevitably causes faulty coping mechanisms together with faulty relationships. My ex had been abused by his father and you can see the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ at play there (he is still inextricably tied to him). Perhaps this is what has gone on with your ex. What is so hard for us is that our exes’ behavior does not fit into any schema we might have for how one should treat others and be treated. A counselor said to me that that is why certain things that the ‘loser’ does is so hard to get beyond, because we are unable to incorporate and assimilate it into our worldview. For them, they are operating within a set of schemas that have been a lifetime in the making and make up their worldview.

   I am not sure if any of this is helpful, but it is something that has helped me a little in dealing with comprehending what the ‘loser’ does and that it is beyond our control. I do wonder if all ‘losers’ have had dysfunctional childhoods; it is hard to believe that anyone who group up in a healthy family setting would ever do what these people do later on in life.
4. 

   Deb

   324

   31st October 2008

   Christina — if your asking all of us about the dysfunctional childhood of our “loser”…yes, definitely my daughters ex bf grew up with both Mom and Dad having issues and still do. It will be interesting to see how all others post…but I think I read that abusive people have had dysfunctional childhoods. Also, I think the main issue for all of us is – we are all “healthy people” and that is probably why we just can’t comprehend how they think and it is such a struggle for us to understand how they operate. It’s almost like it’s totally opposite of what we would logically do.
5. 

   Wendy

   325

   1st November 2008

   It seems probably to be a combination of nature + nurture. Some individuals may have an inborn high susceptibility to being damaged in this way by childhood abuse/neglect, and so when they are exposed to these conditions as children, they become dysfunctional adults.

   My former friend’s mother was ill and in bed for most of his childhood, by his own account. For some reason he came to idolize his mother and despise his father for the rest of his days. When I asked what his father had done to earn such contempt, his only reply was, “he wasn’t as good as the other dads” (e.g., good at building things, or athletic, etc.).
6. 

   Diane

   326

   1st November 2008

   Hi All,
   Great topic…Nature-Nurture!

   I had a great conversation with Dr. Simon on this… I said it felt like they had mis-wiring or no-wiring? He said they just did some brain research that says no-wiring. They did not have emotional connections firing at the same time like normal individuals do. I think thats interesting because I know people who were abused horribly yet they are not dysfunctional. I know people who had great families and they are dysfunctional. I know people who were abused and are dysfunctional too. This wiring testing is interesting and it was about character disorders specifically. Still it could have to do with shutting down during growth periods as well as predisposed genetics. I think its so interesting this question. Mainly it seems so not natural you know!!! At least to most of us here. It’s so hard to understand.
7. 

   Mark

   327

   2nd November 2008

   Thank you Christina and Wendy for your replies.

   One thing that I have been trying to get into my head, as difficult as it may be, is that when you take a child in high school for example, could be a boy or a girl, beautiful looking, there could be one bully (loser) that picks on this teen, constantly telling them they are losers and they are ugly, they will most likely get to a point where they will look into a mirror and see nothing but ugly, because it has been constantly imprinted into their brain. They could be absolutely beautiful, but after hearing it time and time again, they will feel it.

   I have seen this happen, one of my friends was made to feel like he was unattractive when he was younger and I never knew he felt like that because it was hard to see and he wouldn’t talk about it, I would never look at him and think that, I would just see my friend, as he was, but after sometime, we grew closer and he disclosed this information to me and It made me so sad because I would never think him of that, he’s such a nice guy he doesn’t deserve it, but now I see him as an adult knowing he went through this, it must have been very difficult for him, he is a very handsome man and very attractive. But it took him years of building his own self esteem, working out, becoming who he is today until he felt confident and comfortable in his own skin.

   This to me grows a bit of concern because, last night I went out to party with some of my friends and someone had taken some pictures of us, and I looked at my picture and I didn’t like what I saw. This is something I never felt before, my ex never told me I was unattractive, but I feel like I am a worse over all package than her abusive ex, because she went back to him. I do not think I’m useless, I think that I am a great catch, way better by far than anyone who is abusive, and I don’t think that I am ugly, I know I’m not, maybe to some people but everyone has their own preference and that’s fine. Not to toot my own horn but I have had very attractive girlfriends in my past, all but one who have told me I was gorgeous.

   But this is my concern, if I know I’m not a piece of crap – why do I feel like a piece of crap…”I know I’m not, why do I feel like I am”

   Is this something that abusers do to victims – is this normal? I never used to feel this way, I walked around with my head high, proud of who I was, now I don’t feel that comfort in my own skin anymore, even though I know it’s ridiculous to feel this way.
8. 

   Deb

   328

   2nd November 2008

   Hi Mark,
   I’ve posted in the past – I have the young daughter that escaped her ex bf without too much mental damage. Thankfully, because of this site. I’ve posted recently because he tries time and time again to bounce right back into her life. But anyway — my daughter is a model, with 3 agencies. Her ex would put her down in such a suttle way that she didn’t even realize her self-esteem was falling. She even started feeling unattractive. She couldn’t even pinpoint what he said to make her feel that way. She just said he “acted” that way. From what I have read – it is part of their package, as somehow by making you feel your not good enough for anyone but them. So you put up with them because you feel that no one else will love you, except them. At least that is how he tried to make my daughter feel. Thankfully, she hated feeling inadequate, and some of the other ways he made her feel. Since she is healthy – she knew he wasn’t good for her and dumped him.

   I think I know how you feel, I was very much involved with their relationship since they were so young and trying to fix things because I felt sorry for him and how his family treated him. But when he finally moved on to another beautiful girl and it seemed like they were just “happy as a clam”, I myself even felt like – wow, we tried so hard to help him feel better about himself and also helped him deal with his family problems…why did he make my daughter feel so bad, but is treating this new girl so well. Well, I got a firm talking to by many on this site which I really needed. And you know they all said the same thing — the new ones will get treated the same way eventually – we just won’t know it. But some of us do get to know it, as we did – then the ex’s bounce right back to you (hence the backburner) and you have to be strong and not fall back into their trap. I really think it’s just a normal feeling we all have – when they move on, you feel like what didn’t we do to make things right. But what we all have to realize is “THEY just aren’t right”, and like so many of these great people post – it’s “crazy making”.
9. 

   Wendy

   329

   2nd November 2008

   Hi Mark!

   Deb’s right – these people are hard on your self-esteem, and it can be quite subtle. Also, in your case I think a big factor is that you have just left a situation that went on for years, and have been dealing with the aftermath since then (so it hasn’t really all been “over” for you) – and you are simply worn down. When we are fatigued, it is easy to feel bad about ourselves and everything else. We are in fact depressed, either for a short time or a longer time. Poor self-esteem is part of the package, as is not being able to stop thinking about the whole situation and having it ambush you as soon as you wake up (I bet a lot of us relate to that specific thing!).

   I would try to avoid concentrating on how your feelings might be a direct result of her treatment of you. Instead, just deal with them in the here and now, and realize that they are irrational and will subside when you feel better.

   You can also make a deal with yourself that if you do not feel any better at all within a reasonable time frame – say, eight weeks – that you will talk to a doctor or counsellor about your situation and see what they recommend. And talking to friends is good, too!

   Best wishes,
   ~Wendy
10. 

    Christina

    330

    3rd November 2008

    Hi Mark,

    I can relate to the self-esteem issue in that I have been going through some of that myself. It has been about the same amount of time for me since it ended with my ex. I had our child about 3 1/2 months ago and people would say to me “Wow, you look great for just having a child!” It was if I couldn’t believe they were actually speaking to ME. They must be talking to the woman next to me or something. The fact that I felt so horrible and was so easily dicarded by my ‘loser’ husband made it seem impossible that I could actually be appealing! On a related note, when my ex was telling me to ‘go home’ while standing with our newborn in my arms, he says “Oh, your beautiful, you’re young, you can do better than me…Just start over…” I still am in disbelief about him saying that to me, how utterly contradictory the statement was from how he was treating me…My sister told me just yesterday (I was having a particularly hard day), “Everyone thought he wasn’t good enough for you anyway!” And I told her, “Well, if I was so wonderful then why did he treat me and my children like that!”

    My rational mind knows how wrong this thinking is; I guess it is getting beyond the idea that people get what they deserve in this life, whether for good or for bad. I think for the ‘loser’ they aren’t in the mental position to appreciate anyone, no matter how wonderful. Somehow I think the ‘better’ person you seem , or more appealing in some way, the more the ‘loser’ wants to bring you down to their level.

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