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365 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”
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margaret291
Hi Ann – you ask “when did he reappear”? well, he wrote that letter to his sister at which point his current ex (if there is such a thing) found it, and threw him out. He was back in my space within 4 days… although one of the issues I have faced is that he never fully left my space. He fell in with her within a week of our breakup and was coming to my Starbucks or supermarket with her. I saw a therapist who called it “another way of stalking”. I am beginning to be slightly concerned now that they have broken up, though. I got a call from my former husband this evening (he is a good guy). He told me the ‘loser” was in the supermarket (same time as I would normally be) and tried to engage him in the weirdest way…big smiles, hellos, although he and my former husband never had anything to do with each other. In fact, the loser detested him (jealousy and control). Later in the parking lot he tried to engage him yet again. My former husband knows the story and cut him dead. This all worries me: supermarket 2 nights in a row (he doesn’t work, he could go there during the day. He knows that if I am going to be there, it is within an hour after work), showing up on his bicycle as I leave work…I hate it. I hate having to have that awareness of him, being on guard, constantly scoping my landscape. This has been a presence in my life for 3 years now, one way or another. Will it never end? I actually get sick when I think of him now, not as I used to think of him with heartache and longing. Oddly enough, little upsetting feelings of pity and sympathy are still there. (I know now not to confuse them with love. They are disturbing, nevertheless). I have an apartment in another city. The only time I have a quiet mind is when I am there. Buy my business is here. I have to be here most of the time. I wish I had my life back before I met him. My peace of mind, my mental freedom. For those of you here, especially you, Mark, since I sense your vulnerability, cut the ties once and for all. Do not weaken. No nice, caring, normal human being will ever be a match for their manipulations, their cunning, their lies.
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Ann292
Thanks for the response.
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Mark293
Hey Margaret,
Very weird for sure, It’s sad when people have to go through this type of thing, I had a conversation with my sister today about everything, I have not spoke to her in about a month and she just like everyone else said that this isn’t the last I heard from my ex. Which does worry me.
Reading your situation is crazy, I don’t think my ex would go to these extremes, she is too lazy, she seems to like taking the easiest roads possible, smoking pot to mask her pain, crying to mommy to pay off her twenty thousand dollar line of credit debt, I’m sure you know how it works.
But for you, I think that abusive men are much more invasive that a woman would be, which in my case is a good thing, but in your case is tragic.
I would also be worried with all of these sudden appearances, he needs to just back off and leave you alone, especially since it has been three years. It’s sad. Hopefully he cuts it out soon so you can have some peace.
Keep us updated.
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margaret294
He ambushed me in the coffee shop this morning…he wasn’t sitting outside as usual, so I thought I was safe. Yesterday I saw him before he spotted me so I went the other way. The minute I went in this morning, he jumped up, hugged me and asked me out to dinner. I was blindsided. It happened in a split second. I was polite but said no, then he asked me out for another night…thank god I am going away for the week. He makes me soooo anxious and nervous. I’m afraid to be impolite because I don’t want to create a negative reaction, but he reads polite as an open door. What am I going to do? I’ll stop getting coffee in the morning for starters, but if it’s not that, it’s the supermarket, or someplace else. Help… I need advice. If someone had told me this scenario 3 years ago, I never ever would have believed them. This is the 3rd time around he has tried this. My stomach is in knots.
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295
Hi Margaret,
Being “nice” in public only works well with other “nice” people. It doesn’t work with Losers. In fact, Losers purposefully use a public location to make contact with you as it upsets you more, shocks you, and gives the Loser the upperhand. That’s the purpose of an ambush! It’s impossible to embarrass a Loser so they count on the fact that the “back burner” victim will try to avoid social embarrassment and thus say something polite. Since the public around you doesn’t know he’s verbally and physically abused you and you’re trying to be nice, it looks like a normal scene to them.What do we do? Your first approach is totally correct – No! Don’t try to explain anything to him (the Loser doesn’t care anyway) or make excuses. You are under no obligation to be polite, provide a reason for your decision, or even be nice. Keep saying No and keep moving. You might be assertive with something like “Let’s see, the last time had dinner you verbally abused me so I think I’ll pass” but that then gives him an opportunity – an open door to call your friends and ask why you’re so upset with him (another Loser manipulation method). NO CONTACT of anykind remains the only valid way to deal with a Loser.
Keep in mind he’s looking for an opportunity and “fishin’” – trying to see if you’re still hooked and on the back burner. He’ll toss out some bait (calls, emails, contacts, etc.) and if that doesn’t work, he’ll change strategies such as “I’ve changed”, “I realize now I bad I treated you”, or “I’ve never stopped thinking about you”. In truth, he’s probably burned out his current victim and is getting ready to dump her and move to another victim. Once he sees you’re not on back burner, he’ll move on. However, he’ll keep checking from time to time, like a man fishing who always stops by location in the lake and tosses a few lures…it takes little time, no effort, no risk, and a fish just might bite.
Your experience is a good example of that “back burner” placement Losers use after a relationship is over. For some victims, the call or contact comes within a few months – for some a few years or when it’s announced you’re getting married or have a new relationship. Without question – those contacts are ONLY for the purposes of the Loser and on their agenda. There is no such thing as a “I just wanted to see how you were doing” call. Loser behavior is based in selfishness so all those calls, meetings, etc are for THEIR benefit – not yours. Good luck and find another coffee shop for a few weeks. After a few weeks he be fishin’ elsewhere and you can return to your favorite coffee shop. Dr. Carver
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margaret296
Dr Carver, thank you so much. “I’ve never stopped thinking about youâ€. That’s exactly it…only he used the words “dreaming about you”. It’s uncanny how textbook these people are, but easier for you as a professional than us “civilians”. I was so rattled this morning, my anxiety was off the charts, but realized there is no choice but to totally change my routine. He has moved even closer…within a half-mile, so it is challenging. My big problem is that, though I said no…I felt like I had to give him a reason. So I’m stumbling all over myself while saying no. I can tell he is reading that like the gas company reads the meter. I cannot have him think there is any opening at all or I’m doomed. Total avoidance is my only choice. My social conventions get in the way of being impolite. I can’t pull it off. I know him well enough to know he has no tolerance for being without a victim and will find someone else soon. But not soon enough. I dread each morning – there are only so many routes to my office! And I’ve exhausted them all. What a way to live.
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Wendy297
Hi Margaret!
What a repellant situation! I am sure Dr. Carver is right and he will find another victim and disappear soon. Not much choice but to wait – it will likely happen sooner than you think.
I can imagine exactly how you feel, though, and your description of your discomfort and ineptness at “being impolite” ring true with me, too. I haven’t answered the phone on a Friday night in about a year – I let my husband do it – because that is when our “former friend” used to call, and I just don’t want to be faced with the necessity of being impolite – I am so uneasy in that role, and I suspect I would not do it well. In fact, I know the only route is simply to hang up, but I’m afraid of being caught unawares and not being fast enough.
Another problem my husband and I have pondered, and avoided facing thus far, is the fact that we have professional affiliations with many people this fellow considers colleagues (it’s not always reciprocal!), and we used to give seminars that he attended along with them (in fact, our relationship began with his offer to help us present a professional seminar in his country). We are often asked back by the other participants, but have not returned, knowing that we must deal with him somehow. We toyed with the idea of banning him from the seminar, but we know he would make hay with this and draw attention to the fact that he was excluded. But it’s still an option. I recently suggested to my husband that we simply treat him exactly the same as everyone else. He would likely pay his money and show up – but in order to treat him the same as the others, we would have to encounter him face to face (these are not large groups – 10-25 participants). He is exquisitely good at detecting a person’s weak spots, and I am sure he would make me visibly uncomfortable. I am just being realistic here – I can’t turn my personality and normal reactions on and off.
But the situation has one thing going for it, now that I consider it: my husband and I can work as a team. In fact, the more I imagine the scenario (aha!), the more I know we must do so. The one, perhaps the only, thing that disconcerted our former friend in the past was when my husband and I agreed on something – even if it had nothing to do with him … he would become very snappish and remark that we were “ganging up on him”, and go away.
Well, I guess I’ve answered my own query!
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margaret298
Wendy – it is amazing how universal, predictable and constant these behaviors are. If we told someone who had never been involved with a loser what goes on, they’d think we were making it up, exaggerating, or being dramatic. I’m am seriously drained… which is why I appreciated Dr. Carver’s input. It validates my experience.
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Ann299
Hi Everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone else has had this experience with their Ex.
I think my Ex would do what they call “gaslight”. He was always saying that he told me something and for the life of me I couldn’t remember. For instance, he would say, “I told you about that.” Then I would say, “I don’t remember that.” He would then say, “Well, as usual you weren’t listening to me.”
Or he would just say, “Are you going to answer me?” I would say, “Did you say something?” He would accuse me of shutting him off. But I know I was always waiting for him to say something, because if he had to repeat himself there would be hell to pay.
I started asking people that I worked with if they would say something to me and I wouldn’t respond. They said no. So I started to wonder if it was me or not. Once when he did this I asked him if he was sure he actually asked me something or was he just thinking about asking me something. Of course he would say that he had in fact asked me.
Once they was a group of us having lunch out. My ex sat on the side of me and there was another man sitting across from my ex. My son was sitting to the right of me. We were looking at the menu and I was asking my son what he was going to order. My ex then said to me, “Well, are you going to answer me?” I then looked up, feeling embarrassed, because he said this in front of someone who was a almost a total stranger. I looked at the man and the man was just looking at my ex as if my ex had two heads. It was a look like he was thinking what a total @..hole my ex was or it could have been a look like he was thinking, “you never asked her anything.”
Anyhow he would do this quite often.
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Wendy300
Hi, Ann!
Interesting question!
Yes, my former friend did this on many occasions. I hadn’t thought about it in a long time – had simply been confused by it. He also loved to give confusing directions (such as point at something vaguely, in the far distance), and then tell me I had a comprehension problem because I had to ask what he was pointing at.
When I was backing into a tight parking space once, he pointed out a car he liked. Of course, I was looking back over my shoulder at the time, so when I could face forward, I said, “Which one? That blue one there?” (which was a model he had often said he admired). It was not that one, of course, and he had a total, complete screaming meltdown, which I tolerated by squeezing my eyes shut. Later, in the grocery store, he kept poking me and grinning. When I asked him why, he replied, “It’s so you know everything’s OK – I’m not mad at you”.
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