Comments on “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

365 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

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• 

  Michele

  28th August 2008

  170

  I happened along this site this morning when I googled “why can’t I stay away from the loser” I tell him we’re done and I allow him to manipulate me back in. We have been on and off for a year. He moved himself in with me very quickly before I even realized it. I have moved him out twice and now he has some clothes here and that’s all. They are in the garage for him to pick up but the thought of being without him is so sad for me. He has so many good things and then the bad ugly part. I can’t live with the ugliness anymore but I want the other part of him. I know I can’t have both so how do I let him go?

• 

  Diane

  25th August 2008

  169

  Thanks Morris,

  Your story is heart wrenching as well.
  I read bits of it here before I decided
  to comment on my life.

  That part about not giving your soul struck a cord in me.
  And the choices: I think all the stories of hellish divorces
  have added to many of my fears. That sometimes these master
  manipulaters end up looking prettier somehow??? Another fear
  when you’ve been worn down by all of the loser mo’s. Because its obvious I keep up with all the unnatural bahavior.

  The jealousy has destroyed so much of what kept me full of esteem.
  I don’t want understand sometimes about this. I just want to live
  out the rest of my days in health. I just want to be who I am and
  valued for the truth not undermined by the lies and deception.
  It’s such a loss to deal with unwarranted untrust. Stopped fighting
  that one I guess. Yesterday he was snooping around my lap top. So now I guess I have to learn to safeguard that as well. So until I do I hide it or bring it with me where ever I go. Sometimes I don’t even care if he would read any of it since most of its been said out loud anyways.

  I’m glad you got away… And got out fairly peacefully.

  I sent a prayer out for a peaceful ending since the prayer for his getting help and healing never came about. Marriage counseling only made it worse… cause of that small kindness thing I guess. And mental illnesses that are lifelong really are that. Lots of sadness
  and shattered dreams of what never really could be in my life with a looser. False hopes I’ve held that I must let go of…..now and forever. As the good DR. puts it…..

  Well thanks and I really appreciate your advice and own life accounts
  about the living within an emotionally abusive relationship. I hope I learn to detach healthfully, to disconnect from a unhealthy to me enviroment. I hope one day I might be able to think differently for my own self good. And become self-nurturing again. And stay single forever
  if that’s what it takes as well.

  Diane

• 

  Morris

  25th August 2008

  168

  Hello Diane,

  Thank you for your comment and welcome to the website. So you will not feel bad, I too, will ramble a bit.

  It has been 6 months since I left my situation; at times I do wonder how I could have done such a thing, then I read article such as yours, reread my own journal and start to remember the hell.

  You touched on everything and even more that I went through; my situation was much simpler in that there were no biological children of my own. Intense jealousy, control, anger (I started to lose it at the end also…), sickness of spouse (she thought she had a brain tumor), using her own son as a “guilt” shield and on and on and on…

  I do talk to my therapist from time to time; the booster shot does help give me a dose of reality check when I need it. What still does get me, is me quite frankly. My situation lasted about 2 years; I thank God she couldn’t have any more children, this did help me. I say this because many of my support group were in abusive marriages, very long, 20+ year marriages that ended very badly. In many cases, the abuser dumped the spouse after he or she had nothing left to abuse. In other words, the abused were shells of human beings that required many many years to come back.

  My “supporters”, again, many of which whom were in long term marriages from hell, are very happy that I ended my situation “quickly”, still, the emotional damage is there. The good news is that I am getting better; one worry was that I don’t have a need or desire to get into another relationship; my therapist says it is healthy. Imagine, I feel guilty that I am very economically viable while my “sick” wife and her son have to work harder now. I know that I would not feel so guilty or bad if I waited a few more years until I lost my health and career like her “other” ex.

  One day after some planning and much soul searching, I pretended to go to work; I came back a few hours later after crying my eyes out in a restaurant, packed as much as I could and left for my furnished apartment. I will never forget the last day; kissing my angelic wife goodbye, her telling me how “cute” I looked then, me leaving……. forever. No more contact of any kind; me, a nice sweet guy, always giving, putting other ahead of myself. It may have been more convenient if my wife lost her temper, was in the abusive part of the “cycle of abuse”. I learned to respect myself; helping and loving others is right, being abused and used in return was horror. My therapist told me other renditions of men in my position, men in long term marriages. In one case, the husband was stabbed on 2 separate occasions; the 2nd time, the police tried to charge the wife. In court, the wife came with braces on her arms and claimed that the husband was abusive and her actions were self defense; the wife got off and the husband had to answer for his “actions”. At the urging of my lawyer and therapist whom was a woman, I filed for divorce the same day I left. With my wife’s temper, I was urged not to sit with her and discuss the divorce; just file the papers, drop the hammer to protect me from a possible abuse charge.

  During the settlement negotiations; I made sure that I didn’t have a face to face contact with my wife. I knew that she was a gold medalist at manipulation. I was more than fair; she ended up more than a total of 100K, we split the equity in our home, I gifted her son money that was put aside for his education; this does not count the 10’s of thousands of dollars of “aid” to her family and personal gifts during the marriage and courtship. In the end, my wife accused me of having an affair with a co-worker, being a degenerate (her ex was impudent for some reason), stealing money out of our joint account and abandoning her and her son. My wife tried to get me for child support; it didn’t fly, didn’t even get off the ground. My wife tried to get more money; it didn’t fly, she did sign the original agreement that she backed out of at the last minute. I made it clear that I was not afraid to see her in court; I would bring up every moment of abuse! The settlement meeting was very civilized; only financial aspects were discussed.

  When I finally did get most of my personal effects; this after finally getting access to my own home a day before the movers came, she no longer had any leverage over me. Preparing for the move until 2:00am gave me time for reflection.

  Diane, I did get back a digital camera that was gifted to me by my wife and her son in happier times; it used to be full of pictures. The camera had one picture on it of her son’s left index finger “flipping me the bird”. My wife, son and her family hate me for not sacrificing my soul for them anymore. I now have a life that I no longer take for granted; slowly the guilt that I feel for living again is ebbing away.

  Diane, you have a 2 choices, you can waste your life with a horrible man; yes, he doesn’t mean it, his brain is not wired properly, however, to make him feel “whole” he has to destroy you. The other choice is to respect yourself, dump the husband, cancer and all.

• 

  Diane

  25th August 2008

  167

  Thank You Wendy,

  It seems to be a place that can help clarify
  my to do’s list. Lately at least their are
  some old friends and new showing up and it helps
  me not to feel so isolated. My sons back in
  school as well so he’ll not be in the path
  of Mr. Angry.

  I read a Ask a physcholgist question pertaining to
  an angry dad. Dr Carver’s input was useful.
  It hit home and I thought this coulb be written by my sons and so many
  others. Its sad how prevalent it is still. Ya know I have never met a woman who has not been effected by this subject matter. NOT ONE….

  Sometimes the hardest thing to do is follow the great advice you know.

  Its hard to look forward and see the light at the end of the tunnel
  at times. I find I feel I am a bother alot of the times and choices
  I make or have made center around that. Lots of conflicting emotions
  and they are hard to identify. But I am getting clearer By reviewing
  all of this.

  Very grateful for this service,
  Diane

• 

  Wendy

  24th August 2008

  166

  Hi Diane!

  I’m glad that you found this forum and that it is helping you. It helped me the same way, and took some pressure off my friends and family. I am sure that reading and participating in this forum shortened the time it took me to get my balance and persepctive back.

  I had the same questions, at first, about whether my former friend was simply ill, or actually had malicious intentions towards me. It seemed like a very important question. I hated to believe that he had meant me harm, although it so often looked that way.

  For my own part, I now believe that this kind of person feels emotions shallowly but intensely - this can include loving feelings, or aggressive, fearful feelings. They come and go quickly, and can be directed at the same person, with no feelings of conflict for the abuser. These folks seem to live completely “in the moment”. So, it may not actually be malicious intent, but more like a sort of negligence.

  But actually, how I think of it now is quite unimportant.

  The important thing in all these situations is that actions are more important than intentions. A person’s intentions, if they even have any, cannot be seen or felt. What we are subjected to are the person’s actions, including verbal abuse. It is the person’s actions that affect our family life, wear us down, cause us to burden our friends, need professional support to carry on, etc.

  It will probably be helpful right now if you don’t worry about what his intentions are, and concentrate instead on his actions and how to protect yourself and your sons. My guess is that for your partner, intentions rarely come into it. He just acts selfishly, as that is how he is.

  Keep in touch!
  ~Wendy

• 

  Diane

  24th August 2008

  165

  Thanks for fixing my blunder Dr.Mulhauser! And welcoming me here as well! It’s a good thing to have a site as this. So you have a place to go that doesn’t burden our frienships and family members about these matters. How often in my life I”ve said tell me if you just don’t want to hear my venting anymore to a friend. It just gets old you know.

  Thanks Wendy for your comment and support. And also your advice and wisdom.

  I often took the road of living within a mental illness as a way of handling all this abusive behavior of his. Although there’s only my
  perception that it is a mental illness. Because some say there really is “bad guys” out there. Like a friend of mine on the police force said to me once in a story about his daughters inability to concieve of that. I am afraid to think my husband is acting with malicious in intent and in full capacity of his faculties. I need to think its a mental illness not truly predicated on premeditative action and malous and deception….
  with one intent self-centeredness with total disregard for others. That fact is hard to swallow and reframe in me as a possibility but it seems to be getting harder not to admit and accept it. Its all part of power trip with endless unhealthy behaviors to draw from.

  But this all has gotten the best of me at times dishearted. Completely
  seperated from my own center of self-knowing. I read a piece that reflected how hard it is even when “the one knows they have a problem”
  and its effects on whomever is on the recieving end. Devastating to the one particapating all that TRUST broken in these episodes…. those essentials to health and love requires for a relatioship to be viable for a trusting partership.

  In 2005 I can say I just for the first time said the word divorce out load no longer a time out or any other name. I just can’t lay in unsafe arms and negotiate the atmosphere here within my home. I need a home that can be a sanctuary not a battle field. I am in need of trusting love and care that’s consistant. I’ve paid for it within a psycholgist office, friends have given that to me for free. I have went to classes which the very intention is a safe place to live and learn and practice new skills, etc. At work there’s more safety. But not when I’m attending my own marriage. It sucks….when your needs aren’t met….normal healthy needs.

  And all my energy now goes to trying to elliviate that pts and all the fall out of those episodes that created unsafety that I’ve witnessed and my boys. Trying to come out of the burn out in dealing with it.
  AND NAMING IT THIS NEW NAME…. FACING IT FROM A NEW PLACE CAUSE I CAN’T DI IT ANYMORE.

  tHANKS FOR ALL THIS WORK DONE HERE AND YOUR COMMITMENT AND TIME WITHOUT
  PAY AT TIMES TO HELP THE SUFFERING. THE UNEVOLVED AND SICK….
  THE MISGUIDED AND IGNORANT.

• 

  Wendy

  23rd August 2008

  164

  Hi Diane,

  Don’t worry about how long your post was - it’s the first one I’ve seen that was longer than my own initial post!

  It’s true that it’s handy to have such as post as a record, and it can also be therapeutic to write things down, just to organize them and stop them from going around and around in your head.

  I think Margaret just meant that, from the length of your post and its rambling nature, it seemed that you might be very, very distressed right now. But you probably at least felt better once it was all written down!

  It’s good that you’re realizing that this pattern has been going on for a long time. It’s also great that you have survived (I can sense your strength in what you write), and that you have often accessed professional help for these problems. You seem very together. That’s just you, who and how you are.

  Your partner, on the other hand, is self-centred, cruel and demanding. That’s just him, who and how he is.

  It certainly sounds like it’s time to make some changes, and the first change to make is to limit his access to your emotions. Regardless of any actions you take concerning your marriage/living situation, you can “lower his credit rating”, as Dr. Carver says (although it’s a challenge to do this after many years), and train yourself not to take his abuse personally.

  This is only a first step, and it won’t entirely solve your problems. Stay in counselling, and continue taking steps to see your situation objectively and make constructive changes. You may decide to end your relationship with him.

  Best wishes,
  ~Wendy

• 

  Dr Greg Mulhauser, Managing Editor

  22nd August 2008

  163

  Welcome Diane,

  I’ve edited your previous post to remove your surname.

  Please note that Dr Carver stops by this particular blog thread only every so often — he is kept pretty busy over in the ‘Ask the Psychologist’ section, where we publish replies every day to specific questions sent to him by readers. Just visit here if you’d like to see:

  http://counsellingresource.com/ask-the-psychologist

  Or click on the ‘Just Ask’ link in the main site menu.

  All the best,
  Greg

• 

  Diane

  22nd August 2008

  162

  Thanks to the two of you for your comments.
  I appreciate your advice on this.

  Yes I was so long winded as you put
  it but I was told to express myself as best
  I could with no apology
  for length at another site I recently joined.
  It was also my intention to have some clarity
  because since I’ve read Dr. Carver’s work I’ve
  noticed this emotional abuse started long ago.
  So I went all the way back to try and reframe
  this experience I guess. And also wanted to have
  a record like one of those guys expressed. And
  most of all advice and practice on getting this
  new view in my head.

  Since I’m new at all this computer stuff as well.

  Can someone remove my name on that first message
  as I thought it was going to code it?????

  Thank You!

  PS I’ll try to be short and clearer on any other
  messages I send.

  One more question I thought Dr. Carver responded here as well. Does He?

• 

  margaret

  22nd August 2008

  161

  Dianne: please do not think I am being mean but your post is so overlong, rambling and agitated that it is clear that you are not in a good frame of mind. You are trying to find a rational answer to an irrational situation. There is no simple solution to this mess. You MUST pull yourself together. For your own sake. See a personal therapist, if need be, to ease your transition but this has gone on for a long long time and is not going to change. You say in your post “I’ve done this. I’ve done that”. You can move heaven and earth but things will not change. He is as he is. He is disturbed and upset and you cannot change that. Change yourself. Save yourself.