Comments on “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

173 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”

Search for in the Comment Body Commenter Name

• 

  Jeff

  3rd August 2008

  140

  I think I am in a relationship with a loser. What’s worse is, I feel like I am becoming a loser myself.
  I don’t understand myself anymore. It’s like when we’re together, the passion is so high and intense, yet I find that I am becoming manipulative and I don’t think I can ever love a person in a pure and right manner anymore.
  I feel like I am constantly plotting to hurt the other person because he has done so many things to hurt me.

  What am I going to do? I feel like I am being treated so unfairly. I don’t know what to do anymore.
  I question my self-worth and find that I am proud, yet my pride has no basis because I feel like I have thrown away my dignity..

• 

  Wendy

  31st July 2008

  139

  Hi, Bri,

  The main thing to keep in mind is that you in no way responsible for the fact that he is now living in your city and has no other obvious options for where to live, etc. He set this situation up himself. When the original job “fell through” (sounds suspicious - why would they ask about driving history only after offering him employment where driving history was important?), did he not try to get another job? Has it been a whole year without a job, while he depended on you for everything? Unless there is much more to the story, this is not healthy adult behaviour.

  You are using his own reasoning, I expect, when you say he was “left jobless, carless, and living in my apartment”. This makes him sound as if he was a passive victim of circumstance, and I’m sure he would like you to view it this way, too. But now you’re seeing around it - he’s been living this way for a year now - a year in which most people would easily have been able to get another job and save up money for the basic necessities like a used car and a basic place to live.

  The bad news is that your suspicions are likely correct - he is using you as a convenience. The fact that you are beginning to feel less love for him is a sign that, even if you don’t want to admit it to yourself, you sense that he is not the supportive partner that you need. Worse than that, he may even be a user/”loser”, who will actually drain your emotional/financial resources. You have read the articles and recognize his characteristics.

  True, it is emotionally very difficult to end a partnership, even if it was not a constructive one. Still, most people go through this sometime in their lives, and they come out in one piece. If you decide to end the partnership, you must ask him to move out. You may need the support of friends or family in this process. If he will not go, it may become a legal issue.

  “he has no where to go, no one to call, nothing to rely on, but me”
  - remember that this state of affairs, if it is even true, is not your doing but his own, and he has no right to make you feel obliged.

  One more thing - you say you are scared - is this because of the emotional issues of separating, or are you afraid of him?

• 

  Bri

  31st July 2008

  138

  Wow, this article has really helped confirm a lot of my feelings to be true. My situation is a little bit touchy though, and I need some better advice. When i met my boyfriend I was very independant, just got out of a long open relationship, and was looking for someone to love. We met online, and connected instantly. He lived about 500 miles away, and he came to visit a few times and we got to know eachother. One time he stayed for a few weeks and we ended up admitting our feelings for eachother, and making the deciscion to have intercourse. He left to go back to his home while he awaited a return phone call for some jobs he applied for nearby my place. I live in a bustling city, and he lived in a small town. He always said he wanted to live here for the opportunities, not just for me. Our original plan was to get seperate apartments. I traveled to go visit him one week and on my departure day, he received a call about an interview. So, he came back with me. He got the job, and we thought we were on the right track and he would just stay with me for a few weeks until he could save up money to get his own place. The job ended up falling through due to a past driving history, and he was left jobless, carless, and living in my apartment. Now, its been over a year and we had our honeymoon phase where I didn’t want him to leave. Now, I am grappling with my loss of independance, and I need some space, but his original home is now gone, and his friends have moved, so he has no place to go. Yet, he also hasn’t made any real friends here of his own, so he has no place of retreat. Even if I wanted to seperate for a while, we would have no where to go. He has a lot of the loser qualities, and I can’t tell if I love him out of obligation or out of love anymore. I don’t want to deal with the emotional baggage of leaving him, because i unfortunately have some loser qualities as well, but I feel pretty strongly. I don’t know what to do, he has no where to go, no one to call, nothing to rely on, but me. I am scared, please help.

• 

  Morris

  30th July 2008

  137

  Hi Sam,

  Looks like Wendy summed it up pretty well. About the only good thing that I read is that this is a long distance relationship so, hopefully, you won’t run into him again. You should also read the “waitress test” in Dr. Carver’s article and extrapolate to your situation.

  I am sure that when you 1st met, he was very charming; now you are seeing what really lies underneath. Sam, how is is mistreating others is how he will be mistreating you very shortly if you continue. At least you can see him morphing into his true self before you got seriously involved. Ask yourself, if you knew then what you know now, would you have got involved? How he treats other women is how he will be treating you; torturing animals, that’s sick and scary.

  Sam… RUN AND DON’T LOOK BACK! I don’t know what would be best; either tell him when he calls that you don’t see a future or just ignore him! Monitor your calls, block his number or even area code, get a call display. If he persists with his calls, get a restraining order; if he shows up at your doorstep, whatever you do, don’t open the door, call the police!

• 

  Wendy

  29th July 2008

  136

  Sam, (welcome to the forum)

  Holy Holy Holy (cow)!

  Sam, this fellow is classic emotional abuser material, and I am glad that you are having grave doubts about going to see him. He’s actually very similar in most regards to the fellow I ran afoul of (post #66 on this page: http://counsellingresource.com/features/2007/07/16/more-on-losers/comment-page-7/ ).

  A number of things in your post rang a loud bell with me:

  “I’m in a kinda-sorta long-distance relationship”
  - People of this sort do tend to keep the nature of the relationship - its intensity, importance, permanence - ambiguous, which makes you feel insecure and keeps you guessing, and keeps them in a position of “control”.

  “Right away he “joked” about me not caring and not wanting to talk to him, making me feel guilty for having to get off the phone (even to eat or go to bed) and then for taking his “jokes” seriously!”
  - I, too, dealt with these “jokes”, which always left me feeling as if I had set things off on the wrong foot, somehow. Although I was a sucker, I witnessed other people telling him (an astonishing number of times!), “It’s only a joke if two people are laughing.” And it’s true! It’s a good thing to keep in mind.
  - Also the jibes about you not caring, very familiar. This is unlikely to stop. You don’t owe him much caring at this point (although he tries to make you think you do), but even if the relationship went further, his pattern of making you uneasy by telling you that you had been inconsiderate would continue. And you _do_ become uneasy, because you _do_ care to some extent, probably to an appropriate extent, but these things aren’t cast in stone so it’s easy for him to confuse and disorient you.

  “He even let me listen in on a 3-way conversation with a girl…”
  - In my own situation, although we weren’t even romantic partners, this type of thing was a common occurance. Although he is being negative about these other women, what he is actually doing is populating your imagination with them, to let you know that his past and present is just crawling with women (so you should feel the competition). He compares you favourably (right now) so that you’ll tolerate his preoccupation with and conversation about all these others. It’s another ploy to make you uncomfortable, which may in turn make it easier for him to manipulate you.
  - In the back of your mind you’ve been wondering whether you should take his vile comments about and treatment of the women in his past as a warning. My advice - move that warning to the front of your mind!

  “He made me feel horrible and confused…”
  - Yupp. That’s a normal reaction to being emotionally mistreated.

  “I’m always trying to think of the right thing to say to make sure he doesn’t get upset or get his feelings hurt.”
  - I think all of the readers of this forum will find this one familiar. But, as Dr. Carver points out, these people’s “reactions” are not actually dependent on, or even affected by, how we treat them or what we say to them. If he is going to give you a hard time, he will find a reason, no matter how hard you try not to set him off. In my case, when I got to know my “friend” well enough to avoid all the traps he set (thinking I was being a good friend by pleasing him), he simply resorted to making things up to be furious about.

  “My mother and my best friend have both mentioned that he seems like a potential abuser…”
  - Friends and family often notice it before we do, because they are not invested in the relationship and have no reason to turn a blind eye to it.

  “recently, our conversations have been more like when we were first talking, and even better, deeper”
  - It’s the classic “mean-sweet” cycle. You have recently discussed breaking things off (since he was behaving pretty lousily to you), and now he’s sweet again, because he’d like you to meet him and have sex. The sweet part would be okay, except for the mean stuff that went before it. And will come after it, I’m afraid, once you’re more involved and more vulnerable.

  “I spend hours at a time on the phone with him, which is weird for me…”
  We often find ourselves behaving in ways that are out-of-character around these people. Of course, if you rang off before he was finished, you know in the back of your mind that he would punish you somehow, and you know that you would feel bad … so you keep on talking and convince yourself that you’re loving the compliments, etc. Compliments are nice, of course (and he can tell how much you like them, so giving them is a a great “technique”) - but step back and see the big picture.

  “he told me that I could never refuse sex with him because he would take me anyway and defend himself by relating the conversations we’ve had about bondage and rape fantasies to the authorities if I reported him”
  - Holy Smokes! Run, don’t walk, in the other direction. My “friend” was not so explicit, but he liked occasionally to say, out of context, “I could hurt you far more than you could hurt me.” I am embarrassed, now, that I tolerated that (I did question him on it, and, of course, was accused of giving him a hard time and taking him too seriously). But guess what - he was right, and in the end he did just what he was describing. I hope you don’t end up in that situation regarding this fellow’s threats.

  In short, I strongly believe that your suspicions are right on - that you should break it off with this fellow, and absolutely not go to meet him.

  Sorry that it’s bad news about this one - but there are lots of good people out there, so I hope you can move on!

  Best of luck and be careful,
  ~Wendy

• 

  Sam

  28th July 2008

  135

  Hi everyone,
  I have a couple situations I’d like some input on. First is the situation I currently find myself in…I was shocked when I read Dr. Carver’s article on ‘Loser’ traits. The guy I’m in a kinda-sorta long-distance relationship with has already displayed several of these traits to me even though we’re not actually dating. I met him during a technical school for the Air Force and we went out during my last week there and have continued to talk on the phone multiple times every day since I returned home. I never expected to still be in contact with him, much less be involved this deeply.
  Right away he “joked” about me not caring and not wanting to talk to him, making me feel guilty for having to get off the phone (even to eat or go to bed) and then for taking his “jokes” seriously! He was and is extremely jealous, despite the fact that we aren’t exclusive (supposedly). He admits to being a hypocrite, criticizing me for going out with friends the few times I actually do get out even though he spends his weekends drinking and partying with friends.
  The more I think about it, the stranger his behavior seems. He has also mentioned stories from his childhood - killing and torturing small animals, pyromania, and other disturbing incidents. He frequently discusses other women, demeaning them and putting me on a pedestal. He even let me listen in on a 3-way conversation with a girl who had been pursuing him. He was awful to her, and told her it was her fault that he got a girlfriend because she didn’t want to hang out with him. Even after all this, I believe she is still attempting to contact him. He’s told me about how he’s had sex with women before but has refused to kiss them because they were “too ugly”.
  I’m not sure if I’m just picking out all of these negative things and leaving out all the good, but there are definitely things that make me uncomfortable even from a distance.
  We discussed breaking off contact because the relationship seemed somewhat pointless at one point (when are we even going to see each other again?) and he forced me to make a split second discussion on what we were going to do. Somehow, nothing ever ended up changing. He made me feel horrible and confused during this week or so. I was “negative” and “couldn’t see all the possibilities”.
  I’m always trying to think of the right thing to say to make sure he doesn’t get upset or get his feelings hurt. He asked me to rate each of us in attractiveness on a scale of 1-10 and got angry and lashed out when I rated him lower than he expected me to. He did this again regarding how much I liked him, but he was pleased with my answer to that one. I find these mind games immature and irrational, but I find myself playing along to appease him.
  My mother and my best friend have both mentioned that he seems like a potential abuser, and I even agreed with them a short time ago, but recently, our conversations have been more like when we were first talking, and even better, deeper. I spend hours at a time on the phone with him, which is weird for me as I have never in my life been a phone person. I usually avoid phone calls in fact. With him though, it’s different. He is extremely flattering to me, praising me and complimenting me constantly. I love hearing these things. He hardly ever says anything disparaging to me, but when he does it’s always a joke. If I act upset or retaliate at all he’s like “Baaabe, I was kidding, why are you always so mad?! Calm down.” Normally this would annoy me, but I’m always defensive with him and I end up apologizing.
  I’m supposed to visit him at the end of next month, and I’m beginning to think this probably isn’t a good idea, but I don’t know. The purpose of the visit is definitely sexual. Our conversations virtually always turn sexual in nature and have often become extremely explicit. He tells me he can’t wait to see me, and that we’re going to spend the whole weekend in the hotel, etc, etc. Other things that bother me are that he told an ex-girlfriend (ex-fiance actually) that he hated her and that he’d already slept with me (after only being apart from her for a short time), and that he told me that I could never refuse sex with him because he would take me anyway and defend himself by relating the conversations we’ve had about bondage and rape fantasies to the authorities if I reported him.
  Oh, and by the way…he had only known his ex-fiance for a couple weeks before they got engaged. When I asked him to explain the situation the other day, he became sullen and defensive, telling me the engagement was just a joke and asking why I needed to know anyway. It’s okay for him to ask me about my past relationships in deatil though…
  What’s up with him?!?
  Okay, well I have someone else I’m curious about, but this has already gone on too long, so I’ll save it for later!
  Thanks for any insight you might be able to provide.

• 

  Mia

  3rd July 2008

  134

  Hi Faye,

  I’ve been in that position, as married to an abuser, with children and applied this same psychology to my situation. Being married and having children makes the equation a bit more involved, of course. But the principles are the same when dealing with it; we just have more to consider in regard to the kids, and the legal aspect of the marital contract. Beside this, the amount of your own personal investment, emotionally, financially and timewise, can add to the seriousness of the situation.
  In my case, the 32 years I’ve spent myself on my family is without regret, however I did need to take action in order to be understood as a serious person who is serious about taking care of myself.

  To him I was a catch.
  Now I’m the one that got away.

  When dealing with his Paranoid Schizophrenia, which I was not knowledgeable of, I simply kept overlooking the signs and focusing on the 4 kids and their care and needs. That was easy, with their 24/7 activity level.
  But then they grew up and went on so I was seeing more behavior in him that was unusual and potentially dangerous.
  This particular disorder doesn’t usually involve violence, but dilusions and hallucinations. They are more likely to harm themselves on purpose than harm someone else, but his belief that he was my ‘ rescuer and protector’, along with his tendency to take out any anger on personal property, led me to consider what to do to protect myself, especially since he had an affair and was treating me as his burden and not his ally or wife.

  Enough about me, I wish you the best. Please read the articles again with the view that there may be similarities to the married couple as well.

  And there are articles/postings here on the JUST ASK page from others which may deal more directly with the subject of married abusers/abused.

• 

  Faye

  2nd July 2008

  133

  This article is very interesting. Especially if one is dating.
  However it does not supply any information regarding
  the situation post-dating and into marital relationships
  and when there are children involved.

• 

  Wendy

  1st July 2008

  132

  Nice to hear from you, Morris! Glad things are going well.

  ~Wendy

• 

  Morris

  30th June 2008

  131

  Hi Debbie,

  Looks like you are adjusting very well! Don’t know if you recall, but our circumstances are very similar.

  You should be very proud on how you handled yourself! You did what was best for you and your baby; this takes a lot of courage. Look at it in a different way; within 2 years you met “Mr. Wrong” had a baby but still learned from present and past experiences and got out quickly. You have your life back and sound like you are mentally and physically healthy!

  In my case, it has been three and a half months since I left my situation. Like you, I have had no direct contact with my wife since the day I left. I think that picking a day and then following though was, by far, the hardest part. I have had some feelings of remorse; still, my therapist reinforces me and the difficult decision that I made. The good news is that our home sold very quickly and for a decent price; now there is a scramble for my wife to find another place, we both have to arrange for movers ASAP; the buyer will be getting possession in a month. I do still have many personal effects in the condo; my therapist told me that I may never see these things again, still, I won’t give up trying. We did have a spousal support agreement ready to go; my wife, however, backed out at the last minute. The proceeds of sale will go into Trust until the agreement is signed or another is drafted; I can afford to wait.

  I want to show my wife and most important, prove to myself, that I can stand up for myself, respect myself. Hopefully, in 4 weeks, the agreement will be signed, I will have my things and my share of the proceeds of sale.

  No matter, I went hiking this weekend, got to the summit and enjoyed a breath taking view of the Alberta Rockies and the valleys below. I am becoming re-aquainted with good friends again. My therapist says that I am doing great; I don’t know if I would have been able to keep my sanity much longer if I stayed with my wife. I have lost about 10 pounds since the break, work out on a regular basis and still have my physical health; no more shakes, sweats or tightness in my chest. I am not the needy person I was when I met my wife two and a half years ago. My therapist and lawyer say that my situation was “special” and are happy that I still have my mental and physical health. Fortunately, my work was not affected adversely.

  I am glad that you are doing well; I look forward to writing an article next spring about my divorce. It is a bit of a battle, but in time, I hope to continue the healing process and learn stay away from abusive personalities!

You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can post a comment there.