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134 Responses to “550 Reader Comments on Dr Carver’s ‘Loser’ Article”
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Morris110
Hi Everyone,
Did a bit of catch-up and read many of the recent articles; made me want to catch a plane and attend one of Dr. Carver’s workshops. Sometimes, I find it hard to believe the common grounds we have, whether male or female; there are so many similar situations, not just from this site but talking with people that I know. The scary yet reassuring part is that we are far from alone; comfort in that there has been much written about losers and abusers.
I will be meeting with my lawyer on Tuesday to sign the settlement papers. My soon to be ex sent me a 12 page letter as a rebuttal to previous written attempts on her part to get me to come back/feel guilty; now that she realizes that I am going through with it, she has refuted her past E-mails. As time goes on, I can better understand why therapists recommend minimal if any contact; upon reading the previous E-mails, my lawyer felt that the tone was manipulative. There you have it, appease the loser/abuser and for a short time there will be a honeymoon period, however, the cycle of abuse will only begin again. The last letter, sent special delivery, outlined the failed marriage from my wife’s perspective with groundless, unfounded, untrue allegations highlighted by imaginary infidelity; all of this to justify my wife’s abuse during the marriage. No, I was not perfect and realize that I have issues to sort out, still, abusers/losers seem to only seek validation for their behavior and will not truly take any responsibility.
My wife had comments regarding my sudden departure, seemingly without warning; cruelty about serving divorce papers the same day I left do ring some truth. Another comment regarding economic hardship for her and her son also brings out additional pangs of guilt. Accusations of deceit and planning behind her back also ring true. I bring this up because all of us are in the process of making or have made a harsh decision to either endure further cruelty to make our partners feel alive and happy or leave them thus saving ourselves for the future to live rather than to merely survive or exist. I did leave without warning; this was discussed by me, my lawyer and therapist. The conclusion was that due to my wife’s volatile behavior, discretion was the better part of valor. My lawyer felt that the money left for my wife’s use, me paying the bills on our condominium for 2 then almost 5 months would be ample for her transition. Still, she will have to learn to manage and live within her means until she finds her 4th husband. My lawyer felt that the overall settlement including the split of the equity in the condo was very generous.
I am starting to get my life back; I am no longer looking forward to my funeral. Still, there is the guilt of abandonment on my part; albeit my therapist said that I should be proud for respecting myself and not sacrificing my life needlessly. My relatives and friends whom were kept abreast of my situation are extremely happy that I finally left the situation.
My present goal is to continue to get myself back and beyond; I have a stigma of close to 50 years of being a victim to exercise. I am slowly getting over the guilt; my next step is to realize that being a giving individual does not mean that I don’t deserve happiness; true love is not one sided. The loser/victim scenarios are 50/50, I learned this from my therapist; we see them coming, they are even scoping us out but we still get caught up in it. I hope to attend one of Dr. Carver’s workshops in the near future but in the meantime, I will continue therapy and learn more about myself, to believe in myself; I think that this will be a 1st step to attracting and being attracted to healthy individuals and not losers.
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jessica109
thanks margaret and nancy. i do agree that these things are minimal, but in the meantime, i’m paying for them. and with agressive breeds i feel there are certain ways in handling them so that things don’t get worse (i.e. cancelling his phone number from my account that he’s had for years and years). i neglected to mention he still has the keys to the apartment in which we lived together, so it is necessary at some point to initiate contact in order to get them, of course not in person. each day does get easier and easier. i appreciate all ur words of encouragement and can only hope to continue reading more as each days passes!
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margaret108
Jessica - I am so glad you came to the workshop in WPB. You say you have ties “phone bill, gym membership, etc”. In the scheme of things, those are nothing. Just accept that those ties are not important enough to continue contact. Write them off and distance yourself. You are lucky you have your family. Dr. Carver’s advice to “lower their credit” is superb. The losers never want to let go of the “supply line”…why should they? Cut it dead. Move forward, be strong. Someone in the workshop said “you don’t lift them up. They take you down”. He will always be a loser…don’t let him make you one too.
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Nancy107
Dear Jessica,
I also attendent the LoserRX, it was great, rest to say that it was kind of shocking but really accurate when Dr. Carver that he just played to be shy. With that all made sense. He is my now ex-husband, thanks God, and let me put it this way I’m very blessed is that way. The detaching is a process, and eventhough I left, and I had a support group an therapy, I fall back at times. My greatest breakthrough is that with the excuse of the taxws I had to call him, giving me the excuse to go to the old house, he kicked me out an threaten to call the police, basically because I declined to have sex with him.I feel shattered and broken, cried and cried. Actually I love crying when neccesary, my biggest strategy is not to run away from my feelings but let them come and go. As I once heard and encourage me: cry all you need, once you are done life goes on. I you feel like crying, go ahead, if you feel angry, boy in normal, of course don’t act on it, walk, sing out loud, let it out. You will feel bitter at times, confused, so many emotions, let them come to you and then let them go.
Also I leanrned, I was looking for love in the wrong place, looking for it in him andd not in myself, that was the essence of my adiction to him, I beloved friend help me to realize the cicle of guilt, how I bought the ticket, that I was the “bad one”, he was agressive, and I was the “bad one”, yet my insecurity didn’t allow me to see the insanity. An yet is normal, an yet I’m still lovable, taking the time to know yourselve an trust yourselve helps to the true healing. I come to the site and the blog, whenever I feel weak, and I feel I need to get reminded of the truth.
He is sick, he has a personality disorder, and I love him is true.
But above all, is time to love myself. Little by little, you move foward, it also means, giving up some material stuff, and loosing at time money, but above all you can get back your freedom. Also the changes come when is the right time. This week I finally removed my name form the water account, although I had not lived there for months!
We all have our own rithym, and taking the courage to detach is not always a big dramatic moment, just do a bit day by day…Maybe call and remove his name from the gym, great if you get the vacuum…but remember, how much is your freedom?
Love -
jessica106
I’m new to this forum new to all that goes with it. I have recently been a victim of an abuser, my boyfriend of 7 months. Over the past 7 months, we had our ups and downs, but I was consistently struggling to be myself. Of course in the beginning everything was fabulous. Once “I Love You” came, it was like BAM! That was his right to being controlling me. Subtle things started like “I don’t like you wearing white, its see-through.” Of course jealous that someone might be looking at me, or attracted to me, white was phased from my closet. “Eat more chicken, you need protein.” I became a victim of what I could wear, eat, go, be friends with etc. Of course I’d stand my ground and fight him on all occasions, but it became a “compromise” and things always ended up going his way. I began lying to friends and family to hide our fights. It came to the point he called me a “fat ass” (mind you i’m 5′4″ and 120 lbs). When I choose to ignore him for an entire day, he raged inside. By the time I next saw him, he began to push me around, grab me making bruises on my arms, pinning me against walls, the couch, etc. I was forced to call my father (I’m 25 and my loser is 26). I am very close to my family and felt my dad was the only person who could help me at that time. Needless to say, we’ve moved out. I just attended Dr. Carver’s workshop in WPB and it was very informative. My loser is still calling me, texing me, trying to show up wherever he feels I may be. We still have ties together (he’s on my phone bill, my gym membership, and has my brand new $300 vacuum in his possession). I know what’s right and I know what I have to do (meaning move on, stay away, and NEVER go back). I’m having difficulty accepting it all. I’m extremely emotional, I cry at every thought of being apart, or when anyone asks me how I’m doing. Does anyone have advice for detaching from the loser when you still have ties to them? What do you do? At times I want to sit down as adults and deal with the issues at hand without going back, but I don’t know the right thing to do at this point and where to turn. Of course my self esteem is low and I’m very depressed, but I feel strongly that I want to move on and have him out of my life. I’m in constant search of answers, help, and support on where to turn next. Thank you all for your listening hearts and minds. I appreciate just reading this forum as it gives me just a little more strength.
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Kelly105
Thanks for the Loser article,
I know I made the right decision to ask my loser to leave. Thank God the violence did not have to happen but after reading I know it is there.
I met him in AA and he has many good qualties. The thing that broke us up was his refusal to get a job. I am disabled and live on a low income. I was going into debt trying to support him.
I recently found out he had beaten up his step daughter a few years ago and that made me ill.
I could relate to so many of the traits of the loser I know I saved myself a lot of heartache. The section on how to handle the breakup was also helpful. I am very vulnerable to guilt and I won’t let it be a trigger to feel sorry for him.
Thank You for your Help!
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Betty104
Thank You Dr Carver!
You cleared up some confusion.
He still sees me as a feedrer fish in the tank not a bigger shark (the Law) so he is circling just out of reach for now. I hope the courts recognize that he is playing the boy scout when he in fact is showing them he is capable of being reigned in as long as they are watching when it comes to conviction and sentencing.
I always thought that any possible future contact after the heat is off would be a ploy for him to turn the tables on me and get me arrested for whatever he could lie about. He is true in the Loser sense that HE is the victim always and that would be a perfect way to go about it. I feel sorry for his future victims. He tends to play out his unresolved issues on the next person in line. There were many arguments he started with me that belonged to someone else. I would stare at him and ask him who he was shouting at because the situation he was irate over never involved me. He was the delusional one for sure.
The strange part is that when asked by the police if I was being factual in my account of the incidents, he told them I was. They asked him if I had assaulted him and again he told the truth and said I hadn’t. Is that a ploy to be able to say he fell on the sword to save me? Something like that may have worked in the past but not now. I am disabled (which he was well aware of from day one)and he caused further physical as well as emotional harm, some of which can’t be healed. So much for his feigned compassion.
He said his main flaw is that he always tries to please everyone and ends up making everyone angry instead and getting in trouble. I know it’s the worlds smallest violin playing with that whine. I also realize that the true sign of laziness is in recycling victims because it takes too much energy to fool a new one. That puts us in an unsafe position and we must be extra careful. My Restraining Order is just a piece of paper. My life must be lived differently to stay safe and avoid him and others like him from now on.
I was hoping to hear that even a Loser will discard an old victim especially after being arrested twice for harming the same one. Dealing with the legal system is very stressful for me and full of uncertanties. Especially the part where the Loser is fighting back even after admitting to the charges and then never knowing what a judge may decide in the end. I am losing sleep over it and I bet that he isn’t especially when he is drinking it all away day after day.
I can’t understand such a person, truly. The criminal record he now has because of his choices to harm me would have me beside myself with shame and remorse. I guess that is why I could never be like him or continue to accept his way of life. We are night and day. Thank Goodness!
I will not ever meet him again and will avoid all contact. The last thing I need is more abuse from this Loser.
I am hoping for a stern sentence and a long period of the courts watching over him to help me and others stay safe.
I did read your article and it was very helpful. Thank you for writing it and for this forum to be able to obtain answers. It’s one of the best sites I’ve found!
If I may suggest another topic, it would be the Loser and the Law.. how they view the expereince and what they feel is appropriate behavior for them against a victim that puts them in that arena. I haven’t found any good articles that would help victims deal with retribution driectly resulting from such situations.
Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I appreciate it very much.
Take Care,
Betty -
103
Hi All:
For those of you in the south Florida area of the United States, I’ll be presenting a workshop on “How to Identify, Avoid, or Detach from Manipulators, Controllers, and Abusers” on May 20th in West Palm Beach, Florida. The workshop will be held at the Palm Beach County Convention Center and is sponsored by Loserrx.com. Additional information and registration is available on the Loserrx.com website. I want to give special thanks to Dr. Greg Mulhauser of Counselling Resources for his support of this workshop. Thanks… Dr. Carver
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102
Hi Betty, You’re thinking in a few ways that will get you in trouble. First, a Loser never thinks YOU are too much trouble as he’s always been able to manipulate, control, con, and physically intimidate you. However, they think THE LAW is too much trouble. By inserting the courts and local law enforcement, you’ve taken the consequences for his behavior out of his control. Losers are never afraid of their victims/captives - but they can’t intimidate the courts. You are creating too much legal “heat” for him.
Second, don’t become confused by what he has said over the years. Losers typically have a variety of “stories” about ex’s, prior relationships, their history, etc. Those are customized lies that tend to place him in a good light or bad - depending upon what impression he needs to have at the time. Don’t assume this is a person that has will respond to normal conversation and offer the truth about anything. A Loser views every conversation as a manipulation opportunity. They don’t know the truth and wouldn’t recognize it if they saw it walk by. Healthy folks often focus on obtaining closure in a relationship - a final discussion where an understanding is obtained that the relationship didn’t work out…and good luck to everyone. Closure is impossible with a Loser and as you discovered, the most common “closure” indicator is a Restraining or Protection Order.
Lastly, as in this case, a Loser continues to keep old victims on “back burner”. His belongings may be used as a ticket-to-talk in the near future. Instead, allow him to pick them up in the presence of a police officer. Like those he has abused in the past, the Loser will frequently recontact them - fishing for another manipulative opportunity…and another victim. Importantly, any contacts you receive from this point are on his agenda and are cons, attempts to set you up for victimization. That’s why I recommend NO CONTACT - forever and always.
I’d recommend reading my Identifying Losers article and use the strategies for follow-up protection. While he’s not contacting you now, he’s simply moved out to a safe distance due to the law. If you show any sign of weakness he will turn up the heat. You’ll feel like an exhausted swimmer bleeding in a shark tank.
Develop a safety plan that incorporates the courts, law enforcement, friends, etc. NEVER meet him anywhere or privately. Keep a log of all attempts to contact you - in any way. While his strategies may change, his goal of making you a victim again will not change. Dr. Carver
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Betty101
Hi Dr Carver/All,
I have been reading the posts and the articles on the “Loser” here and find that I have questions especially about Losers who break the law.
I recently ended a 3 year relationship with a Loser due to his 2nd arrest for assaulting me. The first time, he threatened to hunt me down and kill me the day he was relaeased from jail if I testified so I didn’t to stay safe. How I wish I had. There is pending legal action now for the latest arrest and he is being charge with serious offenses. I have an active RO and as part of his bail he was ordered to not abuse me or have any contact with me. The case is still open and ongoing at this time. He has been abusive all his life though I am the first person to bring this side of him to the attention of the law.
He appears to be leaving the whole situation behind and not contacting me. Instinct tells me that he may be doing late night drive bys and other stealth methods, in short, nothing I can prove but feel it.
He was ordered to remove his few belongings from my home with a police escort and never did. He also has not gotten any of his other belongings out of storage. From outward appearances, it seems that he is just walking away from the whole situation. There is however an email account that we shared that he is leaving open with me as the only person he has in the address book as well as the IM commponent.
The only time I have seen him is at the court appearances when I must be there. It is extremely traumatic for me to go to them and I am working with the courts and not attending if I am not actually required to be there.
My questions are, do I trust that I have been deemed too much trouble to bother with? Can I trust that the fact he is compulsively on dating sites and in a new apartment ( just less than ten minutes from my home unfortunately so we live in the same community and I am not in a position to relaocate at this time), changed his mailing address as well as his drivers license information, proof he is moving on from this or is he still fighting the charges as a way to stay connected? He confessed to the police he did the deeds, they saw my wounds, yet he is not taking responsibility.
He told me that he loves me and he will never stop. I know he has no idea how to love but he knows how to need in a way he may confuse with love. He also threatened to kill me numerous times if I left him and ruined his life. He also told me that all his life, he has been told that everything he worked for he would not get. This time, he found what he has been searching for and no one, including me, can tell him he can’t have it. He has admitted to being suicidal in the past when I did try to end things though I doubt the truth to that.
It took all my strength to finally get to my enough place and stand up for myself in stoppping the abuse and holding him accountable.
If a past victim refuses to compromise their boundaries, do Losers write them off their lists permanemtly ever? He still tries to find his first girlfriend who had to be sent to live with relatives due to his abusing her when he was a teen. He did actually find her and thought to approach her and ask if they could pick up where they left off though he says he never did. Mind you, he was married at that time and had children. I know he still occasionally looks for her every now and then but first loves are different aren’t they? Or are all victims of a Loser one in the same?
This is a man who has saved things like snack wrappers because I touched them and now it appears he has just walked away from the whole situation. How many Losers like him really do walk away and stay away? Am I safe or will he actually delude himself into coming back after the coast is clear? If he is convicted and is sentenced, is that enough to stay away from me? Do Losers fear victims that get them in trouble or do they risk more trouble by coming back around?
He has a very unhealthy support system by way of family members. His mother pays the fees when he gets in trouble and they, his family, including him are destructive alcoholics. His ex wife divorced him, and his children and mother deal with him when they need his services Gopher, chauffer). He confessed he would never have left his wife no matter that they never loved each other (confirmed by her as well plus the fact that “everyone knows he is bisexual”.. everyone except me that was!) and he did cheat on her, but he has reasons to be in her life due to the children. There is no such link to me.
He told me he didn’t want to go back to the “drunken party atmosphere” but that is where he is. He would scheme with them behind my back and lie about it when he would leave evidence for me to find and I would confront him.
I was the first person in his life to help him do a brief detox and he claims to have been sober for almost two years though he would pick fights to be kept away from me due to safety isssues so he could binge and then worm his way back with promises to stop all the maladaptive behaviors.
He is emotionally and intellectually about 14 years old in my opinion. (He is actually 50 years old) I know in the past he has seen my enforcing my boundaries as temper tantrums. Is this what he thinks is going on now? He would ask “Are you done now?” and ignore me. He would ask me to look him in the eye and tell me I wanted him to leave and be out of my life. I would and he would walk out of the room and act as if I said nothing.
He never saw me as anything but an object to take out his anger and frustrations on. He never worked any theraputic programs for his alcohol abuse as he thinks he can control his drinking and I was just making trouble where there was none.
I haven’t spoken to him and I will not though I must be honest, I wish I could ask him for the truth in all that he did and tried to convince me that I was delusional about. I realize fully that it is futile to even try. It is one of the many wounds he has left behind that I must find ways to heal on my own.
Please help me to understand what to expect from him from his point of view. I am not asking for absolutes. I would like to be as prepared as possible for what MAY come by asking those that have dealt with Losers and their mentality. My safety is important to me and I want to make sure I am protected by being as aware as possible.
I know it takes a long time, often years after being abused in such horrible ways to heal and stop looking over my shoulder. It is in giving the benefit of the doubt and empathizing that has lead me into situations where I should have listened to my gut rather than my heart.
Thank you for reading and answering me.
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