Comments on “More on Relationship Losers, Abusers, Manipulators and Controllers”
You are browsing comments for the story “More on Relationship Losers, Abusers, Manipulators and Controllers”.
You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here.
218 Responses to “More on Relationship Losers, Abusers, Manipulators and Controllers”
-
80
Dear Kristina: As I discuss in the Stockholm Syndrome article, a lot of things keep us in a relationship with a Loser. Sometimes, those traits that make us a good person actually work against us. When we’re responsible, we feel we must hang in their and fix the relationship. We are forgiving until all of our forgiveness is exhausted. Other traits like loyality, compassion, etc. often complicate our brain’s view that we should get out while the gettin’s good. Loneliness also keeps us there….feeling that a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. The only problem…when we open our hand, it’s not a bird…it’s a rat.
It sounds like you’ve learned a lot. One of the advantages to discussions like this is the potential to learn from the experiences of others.
Gotta run.
Dr. Carver
-
kristina79
Dr. Carver,
What is IT that keeps us attracted to and coming back for more (for those of us caught up in the vicious cycles) with our “losers” when we know in our heads and hearts that they are no good for us and that we deserve better than what we are getting?
In my case, there was so much loser behavior - he had minimal to offer, was a complete “taker” and was so selfish and self-centered, etc., that had I been on the “outside” of this relationship, I would have advised anyone to run, run fast and never look back! Yet, for me, I stayed and kept coming back even after countless breakups, for the sole purpose of “having someone.”
Is it because we are afraid to see what else is out there…fear of the unknown?
I may be alone now, but I am NOT lonely….there is a big difference, but it took me 5+ years to come to my senses.
I have to admit, that loser relationship has helped me in terms of self-growth and has made me into the person I am TODAY, so I have to be grateful for that, even though I paid the price along the way.
Thank you, as always, for your feedback.
-
Sally78
It must be the time of the year… my ex-loser has also just contacted me after a few months of silence. Nothing major, just a couple of texts stating he can’t live without me and pledging his love. The trouble is, he said those same loving words to me when we were together and when he saw that I had fully taken the bait, he would drag me out of the water with his sharp painful hook and watch me slowly die in the depths of despair and sadness with his cruel critical words.
Occasionally he would lovingly lower me in the water to breath and I would be so grateful, but it rarely lasted for long. I was never really brave enough to question the pain he was putting me through because I knew that it would trigger another sharp tug of his hook.
When I read his recent sweet tasting texts I so very nearly swallowed his bait. Thank you Dr Carver for your message to Kristina. It made me realise that the sweet taste was in fact poison. -
kristina77
Hi Dr. Carver,
Thank you as always for your feedback. Your responses correlate precisely with my “ex-loser’s” past and present behaviors. I would expect him to attempt to make several contacts as that has always been his M.O. in the past, which always started the cycle and relationship again with no issues resolved. The big difference NOW is ME and where I stand. This recent attempt has shown me that he has not and will not ever change - he is still an *** and therefore it was up to me to change, in which I have succeeded for the better.
I love your comment about “being entertained by the way he changes the lures as he tries to hook me” — THAT is a classic and is so true! At this point in my life, I find his recent tactics over the last 7 months amusing as I’m not in the middle of it anymore and it has no effect on me, except to make me LAUGH!
Thank you again for EVERYTHING — you have been an inspiration in my life.
-
76
Dear Kristina: Losers keep ex-victims on backburner for their benefit and their agenda, not because they are concerned about you. As you experienced, they often recontact ex-victims as a form of “fishing” - tossing out an email, phone call, brief visit, etc. to see if you’ll bite. If you take the bait in any emotional way (even angry), the abuse begins again. You’ll notice that he begins the reunion by telling you HE did nothing wrong. Losers should wear a badge stating “It’s All About Me” - that way it’s easier to understand their conversations, visits, phone calls, etc.
It sounds like you are doing well. The Loser will probably still contact you from time to time. A caution however - Losers often use a one-two-three backburner contact technique. His brief visit (#1) may soon be followed by another strategy, another contact (#2) with an apology for being so rude in #1 and asking for forgiveness. If that doesn’t work, then comes #3 contact which is a guilt trip about how hard the Loser has tried to mend the relationship but you are now cold-hearted. If you react to any of these ploys, you’re in for another cycle.
Stay on your path. Never take the bait, but be entertained by the way he changes the lures as he tries to hook you. Best of luck. Dr. Carver
-
kristina75
Well Dr. Carver, it has finally happened again. I wrote months ago about my “loser” experience and hellish roller coaster relationship in which I was the “yoyo” for 5 years, the emotional memories from a phone call after months of silence from the “past” loser in my life and difficulties I was enduring at work due to having to physically and emotionally relive the memories on a daily basis since he brought our argument to our work place and tried to ruin my job for me. Each time I wrote to you, you told me he would be back as they always are, and that I was on the back burner for when he was lonely, bored, etc. and you were right!
Yesterday, he showed up at my house unannounced - first time since I threw him out of my house and haven’t laid eyes on him in almost 6 months, only to plead his case again that he did nothing wrong during our last fight. Sticking to his story and his bullsh**, I listened for about 2 minutes and then he stated we’ll never see eye to eye on this and walked out.
The way I see it — he must be between victims (he’s doing the online dating sites) and came fishing to see where I stood and if I had softened up…It’s almost 7 months since the “final straw” went down. I’ve made no contact with him during all that time and have moved on with my life….but it seems like every few months he seems to reappear in some form. Not even a how are you, or how are things going….whatever he was there for was on his terms and agenda….he was not there for me.
Typical loser behavior….I’m certain he will be back again at some time in the future, but the best part is, is that it doesnt matter anymore because he can’t hurt me anymore.
Thank you for all your advice and warnings about loser behavior — it has made me much wiser, stronger and better than I’ve been in years.
-
Wendy74
*TIME FOR A LITTLE HUMOR*
Here is what my best same-sex friend had to say on the issue of ML’s young associate writing to criticize and question us:
“So, let me get this straight. A nineteen year old girl who is dating a man who is 25 years her senior feels justified in e-mailing his ex-close friend to defend his : A) ego B) sanity C) sage behaviour, while trying to extract an admission from you that you are A) deluded B) a lousy friend C) unjust/pigheaded in supposed complaints & observations you didn’t actually make regarding said male friend.”
Doesn’t that just summarize it nicely, especially the way it turns your head inside-out? She goes on:
“I can actually see how the pair of them are so co-looney that it might be compellingly humorous and fantastic to see how much time they can spend basing a large percentage of their mutual activity engaged in intense defensive conversation analyzing you, outrageous you, and letting you know just what’s what. I bet they spend HOURS analyzing every word you have ever offered, and many, many more analyzing the nuances of things you never said at all. I bet if you tuned out they’d be gabbling about you in a week from now, beyond which time the relationship would begin to fizzle, they would fight (being unable to project all the crap onto an absent victim), she’d move on, and he’d be back to begging you for forgiveness alternating with freshly desperate outrage.
“Jeepers. Turn around slowly. Walk away. Walk directly away. Don’t look back. Keep on walking.”
-
73
Wendy and Mack and all,
Wendy said:
“hose of us who have been injured by manipulators have willingly but unadvisedly walked right inside their disorder and joined them there for a while. That is why number (2) above is a little dangerous … it could lead us in there again. Unfortunately, we sweeties who have had these problems are just the kind of people who might do that! (just say no)
In contrast, my husband, in agreement with Dr. Carver, feels that even when we’re seeing these people’s “good sides”, their disorder is still in charge, hard at work luring us in.”
Thanks for the encouragement, really. Since Nov.it’s like I’ve been grieving with the shock, denial, anger, bargaining w/God, and all that.
In answer to my own question,there are emotions that I’m working through, which of course makes it hard to be objective. But the air is clearing and slowly the emotional(anger, shock, guilt) is being replaced with more objectivity, thankfully.
Of course immorality is forgiveable, but not excusable to me. For the purposes of what is expected of a wife, it is understood that those vows apply to husband too.
Even my L’s and my faith in God does not cloud these issues of what is not excusable, I know.
The seriousness of this disorder cautions me to take cover, emotionally. I simply cannot handle this stuff. My being limited is a good thing. With all the life events over the past 30+ yrs, kids, activities, etc., none of this has had the effect on him that one would come to expect from a person.
When I look back, it’s with delight, humor, appreciation that I’ve been a part with him, of a “job well done”
He is not looking back with that reminiscence, or feeling. The encouragement I gave recently regarding how good a home we gave the kids, with both of us being here, and him being available to them means little to him, so I have been quieter, less “noisy”, if you will.
He is mentally ill and won’t be getting better. Can it get worse for him? Yes, and as long as I’m here I can see changes taking place. Him “hearing things” and Not joining in conversations, but rather turning around quietly to look at things from where he is sitting, all this is not new but is becoming more frequent.
My understanding now is being broadened as I meet with professionals in the field and with a community advocate group in my area which deals with domestic abuse. My emotional state is going to continue to be at risk. Here is why. I’m scared. I am not a professional. I cannot predict what turn his disorder will take. I’m not equipped to “handle” it. If his disorder makes the emotional and psychological abuse inevitable, fine, but I still find it difficult to take care of myself.
Yesterday instead of going to work, I went to a support group. This was good. I will continue doing what I need to do for myself.
Jesus said: The second command is like the first. Love your neighbor, as yourself. I am loving myself, then I can have compassion for others, in this case my husband, and with that I can with a clear conscience, objectively deal with the situation as I’m led.Can you read the “finality” in my writing? I realize it sounds more cut and dried, it’s just that things are becoming more clear, I suppose.
The forum has been a journal, don’t you think? It’s good.
Thanks again for the encouragement. -
Mack72
Yes, Wendy — I’d say there’s free will at work for many if not most of these people — just like it was my free will to hear my intuition speaking to me and then not just talk myself out of resisting but also reason myself into “giving him the benefit of the doubt” over and over and over again.
When I read “benefit of the doubt” from your story, Wendy, I laughed, not because it was funny, but because that was the catchphrase during my experience as well. I shouldn’t object to his behavior; I should just give him the benefit of the doubt… Also familiar from your story: constant emotional push-and-pull, bizarre nitpicking, accusing me of being too successful and/or a relationship risk, and demands to be told how handsome he was, after all “who wouldn’t want to be with him”? Lol…
This dude also prefers to be called by a native Caribbean name instead of the names his parents gave him, though he hasn’t changed it legally and his family doesn’t accept it… I did comply for a while (not least because he used to “correct” me), but also because I hoped he would grow into the largeness of it. But after all the drama unfolded I kind of realized that he hasn’t grown and he doesn’t deserve it. In our spiritual/cultural traditions, someone only gets a new name to mark a positive character transformation and a new destiny. He shows fruit of neither, and so I stopped referring to him by the new name and reverted to his true one. If we do ever talk again (won’t be me initiating that), I know this will probably annoy the hell out of him. Actually, I hope it does literally annoy the hell out of him, but given past performance, I fear to hope.
“Bleeding heart”? Oh, I can relate. “Bleeding heart” is why I’m here in the first place! And still, despite all of this obvious and ongoing evidence about his character, part of me (you called it an atom?) still wishes that I’m wrong and that he’s merely immature — and therefore still capable of “growing out of it.” I liked what you said, though: keep him in prayer for the rest of your life and stay as far away as you can! Lol…
Thanks for joining in, Wendy. Best to you as well.
-
Wendy71
Hi again, Lori,
You wrote …
…this is ridiculous, I thought, and laughed. Yes, I actually laughed out loud and then I wondered if that said anything about me actually. Cause in reality, this person’s behavior is pretty sad and not something to joke about.Well, it doesn’t say anything bad about you, if that’s what you’re thinking. At worst you’re letting off steam; at best you’re becoming more objective.
But this brings up something I’ve been mulling over: how do we view these manipulative, destructive people (if we choose to contemplate them at all)?
Mary has asked if her husband’s disorder excuses his immorality. I think many of us wonder such things.
I have habitually viewed ML as if he were two people, the “real” ML, and the one clouded by something (which turns out to be his disorder). I have chosen to hold this view because, (1) it tends to excuse my seemingly very poor judgment, and (2) I hate to think that anyone is beyond redemption (bleeding heart that I am).
Those of us who have been injured by manipulators have willingly but unadvisedly walked right inside their disorder and joined them there for a while. That is why number (2) above is a little dangerous … it could lead us in there again. Unfortunately, we sweeties who have had these problems are just the kind of people who might do that! (just say no)
In contrast, my husband, in agreement with Dr. Carver, feels that even when we’re seeing these people’s “good sides”, their disorder is still in charge, hard at work luring us in.
I am still on the fence regarding what we were responding to when we first got entangled in these people. Did we get a glimpse of the worthy souls they were, for a little while, before their disorder kicked in? Or was their presentation all part of the (albeit probably subconscious) plan?
I finally have the answer: BOTH!
Well, a lot of good I am, but I can only say, it is all fine and good to sense the presence of a good soul (if one believes that such things happen), but you can still have a lousy relationship with the poor dysfunctional sod it’s stuck inside.
As for Mary’s question, whether one’s disorder can excuse one’s immorality: well, if it is indeed immorality, then it is by definition inexcusable. But what if one’s disorder makes one’s acts inevitable, rather than immoral? How do we judge the situation then? (I can only say that I’m glad I’m not God).
My personal view, at least this week (har), is that the acts of persons with these disorders are still the products of free will. With all that that implies.
~Wendy
Pages: « 22 … 11 10 9 [8] 7 6 5 … 1 »