218 Responses to “More on Relationship Losers, Abusers, Manipulators and Controllers”

1. 

   Bill Smith

   41

   2nd August 2007

   Losers and abusers NEVER say anything that is genuine. They always have their agenda….to control, manipulate, to get what they want. Every word that they speak is either a blatent lie, or they are telling you what they think you want to hear. They blame everyone for their own problems. And these losers do not have the ability to care about anyone other than themselves. I listen to my ex losers voice mail that she leaves in an attempt to get me off the back burner and I see it for what it is worth….all manipulation strategies.
2. 

   Nena Stack

   42

   4th August 2007

   Dear Dr. Carver,
   I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments and wonder if anyone has any experience with abusive behavior in intercultural relationships. I’m a 29 year old woman who moved to Japan to teach English when I was 27. I met a Japanese medical student my age from a wealthy family. We had a long distance relationship and saw each other once a month. We traveled to several countries together and met each other families. We had a lot of fun together.
   During the time, we dated, I only had one real incident with him. My mother came to visit Japan. She met us for dinner and asked him to bring me back to her hotel. He promised he would and then promptly told me he was too tired to take me to the hotel. The next day, my mother was furious at us both. We chalked it up to cultural differences.
   After I finished teaching English, he was a medical resident and asked me to live with him. When I moved into his apartment, it was covered in broken glass and mold. I cooked and cleaned and he gave me money for food, etc. After a month I came down with severe strep throat. He vanished for 2 days and I could not reach him for help. He took me to his hospital ER and I could see he was embarassed by me. I was put on antibiotic IV’s for a week. I developed other medical problems and asked for his help. He became enraged and told me he had done enough, I needed to go to another hospital and that I could not stay in Japan. My parents sent me the medicine from home. His mother then came to take care of me.
   I noticed he developed a temper. He would throw food, kick doors and crush objects. He told me if I became pregnant then I would not leave him. When I told him I was not ready for kids(due to medicine which I was taking) he became angry and told me I was childish.
   After I returned to the US, I told him I knew he was embarrassed around his peers with me. He admitted it and then asked me to come and live with him again,that he would save money for us, etc. Foolishly, I agreed and never heard from him again. I don’t know if he was a user or a controller. I feel so guilty. Was he hit by a bus? Revenge? I simply can’t understand his behavior. He offered marriage and I refused it. I have to hope I made the right decision. Sorry for the long post, but what a load of my heart! Nena
3. 

   Mack

   43

   4th August 2007

   Nena, my experience was intercultural and interracial, so yes, you do have some company here. But I don’t think any of us can make the “right decision” judgment for you… you’ll eventually decide that for yourself based on the kind of life you want for you and the kind of life your ex offered you. What a lot of us realized after going through the kind of turmoil and confusion you seem to be facing now is that just about anybody can do the happy-clappy romantic thing; happy-clappy is a lot of fun and it’s addictive. But not everybody can do the deep, vulnerable, honest, respectful commitment thing; it’s intensive and, though rewarding, it’s hard work. But deep, vulnerable, honest, and respectful commitment is probably what many of us are looking for, and we know it when we see it. Everybody’s happy-clappy mask drops eventually, and either their real face is faithful and giving or it is self-centered and destructive. Your ex showed you what he had to offer by abandoning you when you fell sick after you’d kept his house, by belittling your decision to delay having kids, and by copping out on accommodating your mother tho she’d travelled all that way to see you… But still, none of us can tell you what the “right” answer for your situation is. That’s for you to figure out, and I think you will; just give yourself time, and be patient with yourself as you work through all this mess. You’ll make it. :-)
4. 

   bill smith

   44

   5th August 2007

   Thank you Mack for pointing out the characteristics of a healthy normal relationship.
   I was in a loser relationship for 6 months recently….a severe psychiatric loser….and previously I was married for 3 years, cohabitated for 3 with the other loser. So, recently I have been seeing someone who is genuine…like you said deep, honest, respectful…spiritual. I have been keeping it low key…and the person I am seeing lives in a different city. They say things happen for a reason….I was starting to think that there weren’t any normal left!! and 6 weeks ago…my mind was so screwed up from all the manipulation. It is amazing that one’s mind can return to normal by just shutting loser out and having no contact….I am grateful for Dr Carver and the people who post on here.
   I had the best day today…received two voice mails and one text from my ex loser and deleted before opening them.
   Thank you.
5. 

   Nena

   45

   7th August 2007

   Hi Mack,
   Thank you for the excellent advice. I should restate it is true that no can tell me if I’d made the right decision-I suppose it’s more the feeling after you make a major decision and you think “I hope that was the right choice because there’s no going back!”
   I also noticed that many people seem to be kept on the back burner or contacted by their former exes. Mine has dropped me like a hot rock. I suppose in a rather sad way, this makes me feel even more rejected-even though it really is for the best.
6. 

   Bill Smith

   46

   7th August 2007

   Nena
   Yes. He did you a favor by dropping you. However, I had that happen a month ago when my ex loser started a three week sexual relationship with a guy she works with. She dropped me quick and said that we should be exclusive friends. Her term for backburner. So for three weeks nothing much from her. Well…when her 3 week thing with work guy ended….she was calling me, text, email, cards, all in an attempt to get back with me so that she could manipulate me to get whatever she wanted money, power, control, or to prevent me from moving on. For me….I have no contact….and no response to any calls, voice mail, text, email, etc. She is creative and attempts to use guilt,sweetness, pity,spirituality, threats, sex, anger, euphoric recall or emotional memory in the hope that I will contact her for another round of abuse. That will never happen.
7. 

   bill smith

   47

   8th August 2007

   Hello Dr. Carver…everyone,
   Today my ex-losers text message was “You won’t talk to me on the phone, you won’t answer my text messages….you are no friend……It’s all about you…goodbye and hope you get the help you need” It was like this just happened yesterday? Is it really goodbye? I have noticed that she stepped up her new victim search on match.com….new profile…and searchable. In fact…I accidentally found the ex-losers profile in a search. I was able then to exclude her profile from coming up in any further searches that I may do. I am wondering how you would classify that strategy….and what will come next…..you have been right so far in predicting the loser’s behavior. Has she already found her new victim on match.com?…and wanted to officially “end” our relationship so that she can tell her new victim all about how bad her relationship was with me? What do you think about that?
   I am learning. Like I said…I am a school psychologist and also have a private clinical counseling practice…it is helpful for me to become educated…I do marriage and relationship counseling….Am I actually seeing more of this in my practice?…or did it always exist..and I just didn’t recognize it? As always…I look forward to your reply.
   Bill
8. 

   Colleen L

   48

   9th August 2007

   Hello Dr. Carver and all…..I’ve been reading and rereading all the posts here and am shell shocked again and STILL how much alike these abusers are!! I’m going to share my story in the hopes it can help someone here somehow. I know it made such a difference for me when I realized that I WASN’T crazy and I wasn’t alone in all of this madness.
   I apologize in advance if I ramble.

   5 weeks ago, my now exabuser/loser bf out of the blue pulled something nasty and very contrived. When I looked back after the fact I imagine to upset me so that again things could be twisted around in his mind and he would have “just cause” to end the relationship, which he did with a phone message on the 4th of July….yeah…nice.
   It was NOT anticipated at all, nothing I was expecting….totally yanked the rug out from under me.

   We had been together for just about 6 years, although never lived together. I’m a divorced, single Mom of 3 beautiful girls and I decided early on that I would wait until at the very least engaged to be married before living with another man.
   He and I had our share of misery….he was emotionally and verbally abusive but it certainly didn’t start out that way, as so many of you can relate to.

   He swept me off my feet….was ever so handsome, smart, funny, loving, kind and man!, was he attentive! He opened doors for me, car door too…EVERY time.. always asked me if he could get me anything…I felt VERY taken care of from the get-go and I had never experienced anything quite like it before. I was about a year and a half out of an almost 18 year marriage that was not an abusive one, when I met this man. He’s 38 now, never married — .I was his longest relationship to date.
   I had no CLUE what I was getting myself into…. I truely believed this man was my soul mate in every way possible……at least for the first 4-5 months. Then….things started happening slowly…AFTER I was in over my head…

   He would twist and turn my words, accuse of thinking and feeling things that I didn’t to the point of me being so confused I couldn’t even think straight — ….it got to the point where I would tell him,”you’re not God and I doubt very much that you’re psychic so you have no way of knowing what I’m thinking or feeling so please ask me, don’t TELL me!”
   He was HUGE on the double standards….he wanted to have single female friends that he kept seperate from our relationship but didn’t want me to have male friends that were even a part of OUR relationship. Always found that interesting. Things got progressively worse after the first year. I was a fool and always took him back when he’d cry, send flowers, make promises that I don’t believe he had any intention of ever keeping. And oh could he put on a show! Cards would come, flowers would come, always after he’d been mean, nasty and caught in more lies.

   I finally went into counseling thinking that I must be doing SOMETHING to contribute to this man’s treatment of me….after all…he said he never had anger issues like that before me……and hearing that often enough made me ALMOST start to believe it. I had never had so much difficulty in communicating with another human being in my life! It was a constant rollercoaster — .the abuse cycle repeated itself religiously every 6 to 8 weeks or so — .it was madness. Didn’t matter what I did or what I said — the man was like Jekyl and Hyde — I’ve never experienced anything like it before and I pray I never do again.

   In counseling I learned what I was dealing with. He was a classic abuser and I remember reeling with hurt and confusion when my counselor told me I was being abused. I was shocked.
   After several months of counseling I told exabuser what I’d discovered had been going on…he was absolutely livid but I hung tight and tried not to let him intimidate me. I gave him an ultimatum that unless he at the very least went in for a Domestic Violence evaluation and if it came back recommending that he get treatment, he either needed to follow through or stay out of my life once and for all. I had tried repeatedly for almost 4 and a half years at that point to break things off with no success…..he’d pour on the tears, promises…the whole honeymoon thing. I called it his “hoover maneuver” — .he always managed to suck me back in. The cycle would start over as I got increasingly more depressed, confused to the point of not even being able to think straight some days.
   I didn’t understand yet at that point why.

   He did follow thru and when he got his eval back he was told that he should start group DV treatment immediately. He was SO angry…it was MY fault of course…now he’d HAVE to go to group counseling everyweek for 9 MONTHS! I told him he had choices — it was up to him but I wouldn’t tolerate him treating me like he had been when it suited him anymore.
   By this time, my counselor had recommended an incredible therapist here that specializes in working with victims of DV and also works with abusers/losers…she was incredible! She directed me to all of Patricia Evan’s books and also a book by Lundy Bancroft entitled, “Why Does He Do That?” I read and read and learned what had been happening to me for the better part of almost 5 years!
   Dr. Carver — ..there’a no doubt in my mind that the intermittent reinforcement given , the good treatment after the nasty was a HUGE factor in why I continued in the relationship. Stockholm Syndrome is VERY real and it’s mind boggeling.

   I was told to prepare myself that these people RARELY ever change, whether they are in counseling or not and that my abuser would probably get worse as treatment went on and she was dead on! He became a more “skilled” abuser…changed some of his tactics but was abusing full bore just more covertly. It was hard to put my finger on it initially,but I always felt scared, I always felt bad, walked on eggshells nonstop — it’s a difficult thing to describe to someone who doesn’t have a clue about crazymaking and abuser tactics.
   There were more breakups…more reconciliations…..but things were VERY tense….I made it clear I wouldn’t tolerate his abusiveness anymore and for the most part — didn’t. It was a process — — .He knew without a doubt that he wasn’t dealing with a doormat anymore — ..

   WE broke up for the better part of several months last February, March..with limited contact. That was the longest we’d gone. He’d always seem to make contact one way or another. I started moving on….getting out more…actually met a dear man who became a close friend only although he wanted more but was very resecptful of me and what I wanted.
   When the ex found out about this friend…he was SO ticked…and then when that didn’t have the desired effect on me, he resorted again to tears and telling me how much he loved and missed me and wanted me back in his life, how if he had been giving me what I needed in the relationship I wouldn’t have started to move on — .he laid it on thick and I thought MAYBE he was FINALLY getting it. He was THAT good — .he almost had me convinced.
   I found out at the same time he was telling me this he was on Match fishing for another victim. I let him know I’d found out…more tears….he deleted the ad but I was a bit smarter then what he gave me credit for.
   He wrote me a list of promises early May letting me know what he’d work on to keep me in his life as he didn’t want any other woman…uh-huh…right. I told him I was sick and tired of broken promises — his words meant nothing anymore — he needed to SHOW me, not TELL me — ..actions would show what he was willing to do, not empty words anymore.
   I have to say that he did try pretty hard to tow the line for the first 6 weeks or so…I was skeptical….he knew it but things were moving along fairly well, or so I thought.
   July 3rd, he pulled another nasty deal while we were out together with a girlfriend of mine….I left with my friend immediately. He called again and again but I would NOT answer that night.

   The next day he left a voicemail for me , very short, to the point about something that had nothing to do with what had happened the night before and ended the call with an angry, “Later” and that is the last I’ve heard from him.
   That was 5 weeks ago now. I never expected this, I didn’t see it coming at all, fool that I am….I’ve all but quit waiting for the phone to ring or an email to come. He’s on several sites fishing for a new victim if he hasn’t already found one. This is different then he ever “did” things the past 6 years…i’m sure there’s someone else in his grasp , only thing that makes sense.
   I know this is for the best…he’s given me the best gift he could have ever given me…my freedom to heal and move on from this craziness but…it is tough.
   2 weeks after the last phone call…my grandbaby gets an anonymous toy in the mail..it was easy to track it…he bought it on E bay and sent it to her , I suppose to ease his sick, VERY little conscience as he’d been spending a lot of time with me, my girls and grandbaby the last several months before everything happened. He’s a sad, pathetic little man and he NEVER deserved me, my family or all the good we gave him. (the anger stage HAS begun!!!)
   So Dr. Carver and anyone else reading…..I hope this can enlighten someone and help in someway.
   Staying with these losers will suck the life out of us — I feel “raped” inside — my soul is bruised and bloody and it’s going to take a very long time to recover from the damage done inside. I have scheduled an appointment with my DV therapist again to help me through — .I don’t think I can manage it alone.
   I’ve read in so many of the posts here that these people many times call after we move on…I don’t think mine will..he did so many times within weeks after a breakup, but this time it’s different and I pray it STAYS that way. 6 years is alot of life to give to someone that has NO appreciation of it.
   For those of you that were lucky enough to get out before too much time has passed, count your blessings and DON’T look back!! I’m trying not to — — thanks for reading.
9. 

   Mary

   49

   9th August 2007

   Hi Colleen,

   You wrote:

   “July 3rd, he pulled another nasty deal while we were out together with a girlfriend of mine….I left with my friend immediately.”

   Can I ask what it was that he did?
   Did he embarass you in public or flirt with your friend?

   Was the DV in the form of psychological? Or physical?

   I have a counselor who hasn’t told me that I’m being abused, as such, but I feel I am, psychologically.

   Thanks,

   Mary
10. 

    Colleen L

    50

    9th August 2007

    Hi Mary,

    Sure…I can tell you what happened.

    We were at an outdoor concert the evening of July 3rd…my ex, my best friend and I. First of all, I should back up just a bit here. Earlier in the evening, I had talked to my now ex on the phone as my gf and I were driving there together and he was meeting us.
    I called him after we got there and had saved him a parking spot next to us so I let him know where we would be waiting for him. He sounded a bit “off” on the phone…just coolish and I remember wracking my brain to try and remember if something had happened in a conversation between us over the day or so prior but, I came up with nothing. Still felt uneasy but chose to “let it go” rather then ask him if everything was alright.
    It turned out that he had gotten there, parked somewhere else and had gone into the concert without even letting me know. I didn’t realize this until more time had passed and I tried calling him to see if maybe he had gotten held up….hewas wrong but was afraid to address it. That wasn’t like him UNLESS he was in his “mode’ and I hadn’t seen that for several weeks….wasn’t expecting it….I had a group of about 10 people sitting there with me waiting and he said he’d come out and find me. He walked over, acted very nonchalant and I stood up to meet him. We walked over to my vehicle,he gave me a kiss but seemed “off”. I let it go but I had that sick feeling in my stomach and the anxiety in my chest that I’d gotten so familiar with over the past 5 years or so.
    I never knew how he would react….he could be Jekyl or Hyde, I never knew so I chose to keep quiet that night. Just wanted a nice evening with him and other friends there. Which I should add, he NEVER cared for any of my friends, always thought they didn’t “like him” and honestly, alot of them didn’t care much for him but they were always nice and made him feel included…he didn’t hide his moods too much and was a completely different person around his friends…happy, laughing, joking….total BS’er.
    So many times he would cause a problem before a get together to try and ruin the evening….that never ended. It got to the point the last several years where I would get together with a friend or two ONLY when there was a fight going on between us…it was ridiculous. He chose to keep his very few friends seperate but…had several women friends as well that he kept on the side….it caused alot of mistrust as he chose to keep it seperate. There are more then physical ways to be unfaithful….I think emotional infidelity is even worse.
    Sorry….I’m babbling…back to what happened…
    As we walked around, we decided to head over to the ticket line, get a drink ticket and grab a beer….the three of us were walking together. After an hour or so, we were walking back to use the restrooms single file thru the crowd, there were alot of people there…..I turned around to say something to him and he was gone. Strange, I thought and asked my friend if she saw him. At first she didn’t want to say anything but I asked her to please tell me…I didn’t know what was going on. It turned out he saw one of his female friends there with her new boyfriend, my ex had actually introduced them to each other when he and I were broken up last spring and they had started seeing each other. My friend said he just turned and walked over to them as we were making our way thru the crowd. No word, no nothing…..I felt bad…would have hoped that he would at the very least call and invite us to join him if we were to far ahead but instead he just left without a word…..not like himself AT all.

    After an hour or so…my cell rang but i didn’t answer that call….he called frantically about 10 times that night and I decided NOT to answer…..I’d had enough. It was rude and thoughtless…we were there together and I can’t imagine having blown him off like that to go visit with freinds had it been me, without at the very least letting him know what I was doing.
    I believe it was planned and calculated…..I think he wanted a reason to break it off and what better reason then a girlfriend who gets upset about something so trivial. Which maybe it IS a small thing but add it to the mountain of hurtful behaviours over the past 6 years and it just doesn’t seem so small. If it feels bad inside…it is bad…I don’t question my gut anymore like I used to.
    The rest of the story is in my first post.
    It all seems very surreal to me now…..it really did take me by complete surprise. Days before he’s professing his undying love, spending time with my family, hugging and holding my 7 month old grandaughter who had grown attached to him over the past several months and then WHAM….I didn’t know what hit me…still don’t.

    It’s amazing how these people can so easily go on with their lives while leaving their “victims”(I HATE that word!)devestated and trying to pick up the pieces. I’m not the same person anymore. It will be a cold day in hell before I EVER ignore red flags again…..it costs WAY too much.

    Mary…if you FEEL you’re being abused, if you feel bad inside or you hurt and can’t make sense of things….trust yourself Sweetie……that’s telling you that you ARE.

    Hugs to you.

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