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218 Responses to “More on Relationship Losers, Abusers, Manipulators and Controllers”
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11
Very good comments and info on the loser. I am in the process of withdrawing my expectations then we will see what else. I’m in counseling after 30 years of marriage to a loser. The counselor I see is in the same practice that provided an exhaustive assessment of my husband six years ago. I found the profile report over last weekend, tucked away at home and started researching the diagnoses. Oh, oh.
No wonder I’ve had my bags packed 3 times since November, etc.He declined further treatment at the time. I was not paying close attention back then as I was busy raising our children and concerned more with that, and his heart disease.
So now in the past few years that he has become more distant and secretive, ambivilant and reactionary,he is in a situation where he really needs that help and refuses it.
I didn’t know what was going on, just that he was avoiding me and avoiding communicating with me and that we needed counseling. He refuses counseling. I’ve been in counseling since Feb. and now with the new counselor at the former practice.
Now I know. It doesn’t look good for him at all. Whether he seeks treatment or not, I am preparing myself for change. No longer do I feel dependent on this person who has evidently always viewed me as an intruder in his life. I have no regrets about my role as wife and mother. I was doing what I love to do all this time. I’m just sorry he hasn’t enjoyed any of this with me.
The kids are great. They know something is wrong and that their father will not go to counseling.
Backing away is a real study. For him, my leaving needs to be my fault. -
Mary
12Dr. Carver,
On the summary of his profile report, it is noted that my husband rated highest on scales 6 and 8 of the MMPI-2.
In the list of diagnoses, Axis 2 was labeled: Diagnosis Deferred.
However my search revealed in the MMPI-2 explanation that he is paranoid/schizophrenic or has Schizoid Personality Disorder.
I don’t know who this person is after 30 years.My question is, should I be making plans and detaching? I’ve begun detaching a little but he tests me. The kids test me too, when they come over. They also manipulate and criticize me
Even though the children know there is something wrong, they don’t know what or who is responsible. Somehow I tend to be the one with the problem according to them.He knows I am in counseling.
My sense is that I may need to leave abruptly, so I have packed just in case. He is more likely to continue using odd comments and behavior to drive me out without actually using either physical means or telling me outright, to just leave.
He is passive aggressive and I’ve never seen him angry or heard him yell, but he has destroyed personal property of a sentimental nature before, along with being ambilvilant. I believe he had a relationship outside our marriage.He sits at the table and watches me, and my expressions. He stares in the direction I look, when we are in public. He comments on people. I told him I don’t want to go out with him to eat any more, because he is bad company.
Should I keep my mouth shut?
Could he hurt me physically? He hasn’t yet.
When I go, should I tell the kids or let them talk at me and blame me or whatever?
On the one hand I feel that keeping to the present tasks at hand, as if nothing has changed would provide time enough to get what I need taken care of.I’m exhausted. Sorry for the rambling; I appreciate any help at this point.
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Bonnie Connor
13I am dating a loser but i’m so turned around that I feel confused and like I am a screwed up person. i was a confident happy-ish woman going through the changes that come after the ending of a six year relationship, when I met the loser..He was funny, handsome, loving and very nice and understanding of me. I thought he was amazing and I was so glad to have him and not to be lonely.
Once we became intimate, everything changed. He became very critical of me, accused me of seeing other men, angry when he can’t get me on the phone. When I defend myself, he says “we are like oil and water” and “I’m not used to this level of drama” I can’t get it right and I’m always apologizing. He threatens to leave regularily and then he turns really sweet after days of distancing, if I cry and get upset he says I have pms. I can’t predict or control his bad moods, and it’s ALWAYS my fault. He twists my words and my intentions. If I don’t ask about his health problems (he’s a hypochondriac) he says, “You didn’t even ask about my shoulder” (or eye, Or headache..etc) But if I do ask or make suggestions he gets angry and says, “your stressing me out” ” I’m trying to get some balance in my life” He’s extremely inteligent and seems to know how to control me, although I am intelligent too. If he was like this at the get go, I never would have become involved with him but it was a subtle thing and it’s getting worse.
I know that I have to leave him but I get pulled back in to trying to “get it right”
My stress level is through the roof, I feel like a bad person. I never used to feel this way. If he’s nice to me, I feel relief but I’m still always anxious, waiting for the storm-and it always comes.
Why am I so pulled in and what can I do to break this spell? I’m ashamed that I am so dependant on his approval. When he”leaves” I feel such grief.
Thank You,
Bonnie -
Bill Smith
14Bonnie
I felt the same way you do. Being a school psychologist and counselor my nature is to help people. Even once I knew my ex loser was personality disordered….I wanted to get her help. I thought that maybe she would go for therapy. I cannot discount the first three months of the relationship was great. I thought I found the person who god wanted me to be with. When the sex stopped I knew something was wrong. Still I thought well maybe childhood trauma or whatever. It wasn’t until the 5th month when she switched from the nice to the greedy money hungry narcissist sociopath borderline that she is. I now realize all of the first 5 months was done to manipulate me and for me to invest into the relationship with the loser. My ex loser was very careful not to put me down knowing that I would catch on quicker. So to answer your question. Sometimes we experience euphoric recall. Or in other words remembering only the good. And just like the euphoric high of crack cocaine…the devastation far exceeds the pleasure.
Thinking things will return to a previous state is an illusion. These losers don’t care about anything except to control manipulate and destroy. Follow the plan and get out. Dr carver is an expert on this. Follow the steps to the letter….do not deviate from them. It has worked for me with minimal problems other than annoyances. -
Skyla
15Thank you once again Dr Carver.
Something that is completely confusing me is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. My understanding is that psychopath (like Ted Bundy) have absolutely no remorse or conscience, and that sociopaths are able to feel guilt. But I have recently been having debates with psych students who argue that a sociopath can be loyal to a certain group and they can actually build relationships and care about others. And they can be treated and get better???.
This has not been my experience with a sociopath at all (and from everything you have said previously also). My ex never showed remorse for giving my dog brain damage or caring behavior when loved ones died, he is a terrible dad and was/is a terrible partner and friend..
So I am confused. What is the difference?.
Thank you
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Bonnie Connor16
Thank You for your comment, Bill. It sounds like you really get it..I guess you have to ignore the “pull” and, however upsetting, just get them out of your life. Today was a real eye- opener- He’s out of town for two days and he called this morning and didn’t get me, so when i called back he said, “Oh, just getting in” “I see” as in, I’d been out all night..then he said, “I’ll call you when i get in tonight” and I told him that I would be out for dinner at my (gay) friend’s house..He was angry, I could tell..As if i’m supposed to stay home when he’s not here…It just really hit home. This is not normal.
Anyway, good for you for figuring your “loser” out and moving on.
I hope that I have your courage and resolve.
Best,
Bonnie -
17
Dear Mary: Like many of the folks in this discussion, you’d need an exit plan if you decide to leave. For Losers, their goal is to maintain their control in the relationship. It’s not to make the marriage better or to make everyone happy.
When there are adult children, they often become upset with parental decisions to divorce. While they often clearly see the mistreatment present in the marriage, they are smart enough to see that the Loser parent will be coming in their direction if the primary caretaker leaves. When this happens, they actually encourage you to stay.
You are totally correct that the Loser must and will blame their partner for any breakup. While this is nothing new in their behavior, it does tell us that attempts to help them understand the situation, talk about it, or even make the departure less stressful – all typically fail. Keep in mind, they want to use the “poor me” and victim position for future manipulations.
If you decide to leave, there is no perfect way to do it. A situation may arise that prompts you to walk out immediately. Other times, you may leave over a few days. You may leave and tell the children later…or before. You must play that depending on the situation.
Dr. Carver -
18
Dear Bonnie: The honeymoon’s over! He’s returned to baseline which is the It’s-All-About-Me behavior. Keep in mind that part of your grief is loss…yes, loss. During that honeymoon phase you had great hopes, you’d found Mr. Right after a failed previous relationship, and he treated you right in every way. You had a fantasy and dream investment that just went sour. It’s like buying your dream home only to discover three months later it’s been built on quicksand.
With a Loser’s manipulations, they hint that the fantasy is still within reach if YOU will only do certain things. They blame you that it didn’t work out. It’s never them.
We get pulled back again and again because as normal, healthy adults, we feel we have the power to fix and change this. They even hint that we can fix them…but the hint is actually a manipulation – not a real possibility. As part of their “con”, they have you chasing imaginary fixes while being used and abused at the same time. It’s like telling someone to guess a number and they’ll win $1000. It doesn’t really matter if they guess correctly, you don’t have the money anyway and have no intention of paying.
The confusion actually keeps you hanging in there, under a false illusion that eventually this will be cleared up. It’s never cleared up because it’s not to the Losers advantage.
For the next few weeks, just watch and monitor the strategy and techniques being used. You’ll be amazed, as you were from the recent interaction.
Let us know how you decide to handle this. Dr. Carver
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19
Dr. Carver, I’m printing out the details of this response and the others in order to have them close by. I have been toting a little book bag with me which contains a puzzle book, other inocuous newspapers and such, and the Loser Pts 1&2 articles tucked somewhere between various pages of rif raf, for easy reference.
Thanks for the guidance.
My preliminary steps are to speak with Psych, and his physician. The way I see it, two things need to happen.1)I need to take care of myself; no matter what he does
2)He needs to take care of himself; no matter what I do
#1 is my primary concern.
#2 will be left to him and the psych and his physician. -
20
Dear Mary,
You have a valid plan!
Dr. Carver
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