We’ve had such a great response to this latest post on Dr Carver’s ‘loser’ article (and the page has grown so giant!) that we’ve opened a new thread with a new post on relationship losers:

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2007/07/16/more-on-losers/

Please head on over to the new discussion thread if you’d like to share your experiences with manipulative and controlling behaviour, or if you’d like to ask Dr Carver for feedback on your own situation.

All the best,
Greg

Hello, I am a twenty-year old college student and I am trying to deal with a situation but am wondering if you could offer a little advice. I read your article as well as many of these posts. I feel my mother is involved with a “loser” and I am having a very hard time dealing with it. A quick background – she had me when she was 18, right out of high school, she left my biological father due to his drug use at the time (I have never met him). She then married a man in her early twenties whom she divorced five years later. She then quickly married another man in less then a year. This was an emotionally abusive relationship for both her and I. Seven years later he decided he was leaving, and she found out he had been cheating on her and lying to her for about a year. At this point she pretty much had an emotional breakdown and became very depressed. Rather than seeing a psychiatrist though, she met someone new and fell for him. This is where the current part as well as my situation begins.
She went on a date with him and completely fell for him. She never healed emotionally from the previous relationship and completely submerged herself in this one. He was rich and gave her everything she wanted. I of course was opposed to it from the beginning – because I could see that she needed time to herself to heal. Anyways, he treated her good but then became very moody and controlling; to the point where I felt I didn’t know who my mother was anymore. After about a year of living with him, she decided to leave. He made her feel like she was crazy and completely in the wrong. He refused to return her calls and wouldn’t talk to her for about four months. Finally when he “gave her a second chance” and she fell for him again. This time though, she became pregnant and now their child is ten months old. She now wants to leave at least once every two weeks, but feels she can’t because she wants to stay together for the baby. He also makes her feel that if she ever did leave again, he would never give her “another chance” and that he would “fight for his child”. Another side of the issue is that over the course of their relationship, he has made her financially dependant on him. He made her quit her job because he wanted her to stay at home with the baby. He also convinced her to use the money she got from her previous divorce settlement to invest in the remodeling of “his house” where she lives.
I have been watching this situation divulge from afar, as I have been an hour away at school for the past two years. This summer I began taking classes at a school in the city where they live and agreed to live with them for the summer. Since May, I have witnessed his controlling and manipulative ways and it makes me very sad. He has complete control over my mother. He doesn’t agree with the way she parents me and continuously tries to interfere on our relationship. He claims that he is mean to me because he does not agree with the way I treat her. Finally, last week she was talking to my grandmother (her mother) and me and, on her own terms, decided that she was leaving. She seemed to be back to her normal self. Then they went on a road trip for the weekend and spent time together. In that time he convinced her that she had been treating him poorly and that no one in her family treats her the way she deserves. He completely flipped the situation and manipulated her into thinking the exact opposite of what she had only two days before. When she returned I told her how I felt and that not only I, but her entire family as well as her best friend felt the same way regarding him. It escalated to the point where she informed me that if this is what it comes down to she may have to end her relationships with her entire family, including myself, for the man she loves. And this is where I stand. I am feeling completely lost and alone. I am living at my aunts’ for the time being but am not sure where to go from here or what to do. My relationship with my Mom means so much to me and it scares me that I will lost that to his controlling and manipulative ways. If you have any advice I would appreciate it greatly.

Thank you

As their true behaviors surface, they produce excuses for the behavior. As it becomes worse, they begin to blame you for their behavior. They actually give you the impression that you’re creating problems in the otherwise-wonderful relationship. Some personality disorders are romantic conartists while others are criminal conartists.

As I mention in the opening of my article, a relationship with a Loser is damaging. There are losses – self-esteem, sometimes money, sometimes a laptop, and as Mack discovered – sometimes good people. Detachment from a Loser often requires detachment from their family, friends, coworkers, etc. It’s a sad situation, but continued contact with the Loser’s family and associates provides an avenue/channel of contact for the Loser. Those contacts also provide the Loser with information about your status, helping him/her decide when you might be more vunerable for recontact.

Lastly, Lori mentions how she craved for his attention and affection. Isn’t that a normal, loving reaction? The problem is that a Loser can’t give that back. When two people crave each others attention and affection – what a great romance! There’s nothing wrong with that at all. Had he been a healthy partner it would have worked out well. In personality disorders, however, loving them can’t make them love you back. We can love a shark with all our heart – it will still eat us! Loving someone doesn’t protect us from what or who they are. For this reason, we must select partners who can love us back. At the same time, it’s a good idea to keep some shark repellent handy.

Thinking of it, I am not even sure what my loser baited me with. He was an a-hole most of the time, superficially charming and usually bearable only when drunk. He was socially inappropriate, could not remember half the stories he told or things he did, and went out of his way to be aloof. I guess because he “opened up” to me over time, divulging info about his life, I felt like a special person learning all the secrets he couldn’t share with anyone else. Perhaps he was just being manipulative and I had a savior complex.

What I especially found strange among all his odd behaviors: I would make a unique observation about him. A few weeks later, he would attribute such a comment to another female that he was desperately fancying, adding how he “always remembered” what the women he loved said. I seriously could not tell if he truly believed this other person made comments that I made, or he was trying to insult me.

My self-esteem has been impacted, I think, because I was attracted to this loser in the first place and allowed this loser’s opinions to make me doubt who I am. I DO feel worthy, and I DO feel beautiful. However, wanting him and getting involved with him has made me feel “ruined” as if I would never recover from making such a mistake.

I am appalled that I *craved* his admiration and attention and affection, all of which he purposely withheld. The fact that I even NOW want to hear from him upsets my stomach and gives me a headache. But, I realize the feeling will go away and it’s so much better in the long run never to ever hear from him again.

What’s your opinion?

[Note to Lori, in case you ever read this: You deserve better. You do know who you are and what you're worth.
So don't put up with someone who devalues you... He might be training himself to regard you lightly and that's his choice -- but don't train yourself to be lightly regarded. Don't do it & don't allow it. I understand wanting back what he baited you with -- and you're seeing now that that sweetness wasn't really him at all, aren't you? It was just bait. You're not a fool for being attracted to the bait; you do deserve someone who's charming and stuff. And now you know that he ain't charming at all; he's rotten on the inside -- you know. So don't wait for the decay to spread; drop him like a squishy pear. You're worth more than squishy pear, really you are, and you know it. :-)]

You handled it perfectly! The incident will still provoke Emotional Memory for you – a temporary reliving of the hell of that relationship. You might want to read my article on the topic on my website at http://www.drjoecarver.com

You’ve provided an excellent example of how to put advice to work in the real world. Sometimes Losers try to return to our lives by phone, visits, email, or by trying to tap our bank accounts (thanks to Bill for that example). When this happens, either No Contact or as you correctly described it – Short and NOT Sweet!

You passed the test!!
Dr. Carver

I feel so shaken. I was just beginning to stop feeling nervous about seeing him or worrying that he might do something nasty. I suppose this is textbook Loser – he has left it for a while for me to calm down and to let my guard down, and is now testing the water. Well, if he tries any other sort of contact, I will give him the same response: leave me alone!

All the same, I feel really shaken now but I think I dealt with it in the right way – short and NOT sweet.