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76 Responses to “Overwhelming Response to Threads on Relationship Losers”
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GT30
I mean I am now fearful that she will take revenge or intimidate me and my daughter cutting her off and she will find us a thread for her new victim.
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GT29
Hi Dr Carver - I am 100% sure that I am the victim of “Stockholm Syndrome” with a personality disorder person before aftering reading your article. I thought I have found a very best friend which understand and always be there if I needed help. Why when I tried so hard to make our friendship work but somehow something is just not right. Why she did so many things that she did and at that time didn’t make any sense to me. Trying so hard to keep my friendship alive with her for the sick of my daughter’s dancing but now know it was doom from the beginning. My family didn’t like her and told me she was crazy but yet I thought my family was breaking us up. I thought they were jealous of me for having a good friend and confide in her almost anything. It was the worst 3 years of having a friend I thought was sincere and trueful.
It started in June 2003 during a pageant and talent contest for my daughter. The “loser” daughter was in the contest as well. We got to know each other. During the contest, she would offer me help like making sure that my daughter costume was pretty and advising me what to do. She contacted me so often to advice. When my daughter were selected to represent Singapore in Las Vegas for this contest, I got calls from her asking how was things with me when I was in Vegas. My daughter is a dancer and soon she coax me to let my daughter partner her son. After I came back from the trip, I agreed the partnership. She got very attached and calling me in-laws saying his son was in love with my daughter. Beginning was just like “honeymoon”. Helping my daughter with makeup, hairdo and costume. Buying presents for my whole family. Keeping in contact with me everyday to ensure that I am doing ok. The “Loser” and her son were very concerned about us. The “loser” started to scold her son if there was some trouble with their dancing and made me feel so bad. She did a lot of nice things that made me feel so obligated that I will pay back my guilt by buying things for her children. Paying for their meals. Inviting them over for lunch or dinner with my family. But my family just don’t like them….they could see what was happening. The “Loser” family started to come to my place so very often, let her children stayed over my place for weeks. Whenever I have a family outing or picnic, “Loser” family will appear out of the blue to join in. My family was rather annoyed by their presents so I have to arrange different outing sessions, one with my family and one with her family. She would always request for my time with them and I was really caught in between at times. She started to tell us what to wear and what to buy.
She kept all my daughter’s costume telling me she would wash and repair them. Then she started to get me to pay for items which she said will pay me back later. During local or overseas competitions, she would get me to book hotel first, she said will pay later and never did pay me since I first met her. Get her children to whim in front of me those things they would like to have eg. Handphone, MP3 player, gifts etc etc. Every friends’ birthday gifts bought by me (supposed to spit the share) never got paid. Each time when I mentioned the money owed to me, she would come up with some excuse to pay me back later. Forgetting to bring her wallet to buy things was her usual excuse so that I got to pay for her first. The money just accumulated. She would tell me how terrible was her brought up. How terrible it was during her divorce. How bad her ex husband treated her. How strong she is now that she will be verbally and physically becoming violent if anyone stand in her way. She told me how she hit her brother-in-law when she learnt that her sister became a prostitute cos’ her husband didn’t provide her enough so resort to such job. Then she started to fault my daughter everytime she fall during dancing even it was so obvious that her son was at fault. I felt trap and silly at times but I just couldn’t let it go cos’ I felt my daughter has came a long way in her dancing. I though I got a “Good” friend that help us with makeup, hairdo and costume. She started to tell me bad things about people around us. That makes me so distance from everyone. I just don’t know who is good or who is bad….I just listened and trusted her. My daughter and I wouldn’t dare to mix around, we just smiled at people and kept a distance from everyone. I felt she is controlling me, I couldn’t breath but yet why did I cling on. Then she eyed another victim and started to pay attention to that girl. I had withdrawal symptoms, like longing for her to call. Wondering what had happened. Texting her telling how far our kids have came in dancing and just don’t want anything to happen to their partnership. I was confused and my feelings were like a roaster coaster. She dropped her calls to me and beginning verbally abusing me and my daughter. Criticizing her dancing and finding fault. She was paying so much attention to the new victim she found. That is where I consulted my friends and they could see what was happening to me. I begun to plan my exit route with the help of my friends. I find every opportunity to give excuse and exit peacefully. Yes….and finally me and my daughter were free. She went into breakup panic. She would try to call me and text me to tell me how sad she was, she cried when people start asking her what happen. From the help of my friends, they told me to ignore all her calls and messages Without response, she started verbally abusing me with messages and emails. Threatening me to bring the matter to my daughter’s school regarding some blog site that was posted against her son which is not done by my daughter. Threaten to have a confrontation with coaches, friends, me and her. Telling a lot of lies to get me back again. A whole lot of threatening messages and emailed were ignored. And all these finally stopped after a while. But now, her new victim has begun to partner her son and we all just know that it will be another cycle again. I was just hoping with this article, and your response of my experiences and the type of person, those people around this “Loser” somehow will pick up my article, read about it and understand what they are going thru. After the break up, I started to be myself again, happy, outgoing with lots of friends. I can also discuss what I have gone thru with my family and also print your article for them to read. I found out too that a lot of people has been victimised by her before and during my time with this “Loser”. I know of some people still keeping contact with her, guess she is putting these people on the back burner. I know of a person now very attached to her and looked very depressed, low self-esteem, no confident and just look very down. I just got to look helplessly at him till he gives me sign of an exit. Now that she is back….I am just fearful that she will take revenge or intimate me and my daughter. -
rhys28
hi dr carver
my ex-partner and mother to our 4yr old boy has borderline characteristics and fits a lot of the ‘loser’ criteria too. i get blamed for everything, she is openly abusive and aggressive, and she has been violent.
i know that she had a very difficult upbringing and my research on BPD leads me to conclude that she is emotionally stunted and has difficulties with adult responsibilities.
i feel sorry for her and this is probably my co-dependency problem coming out, but the fact remains that she is struggling on her own and needs help. should i try to get back with her? or, what is the best way i can help her?
thanks
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Pat27
Dear Doctor Carver,
I’d just like to say thankyou again. I will definately keep any contact I have with him very short and not sweet. Like you say in your article, I don’t want to give him any hope or indication that I might be softening up or might go back to him.
Pat
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26
Dear Pat: We all have instincts and what I call a “jerk alert”. Both sound an alarm when we’re confronted with a behavior, situation, comment, etc. that doesn’t make sense. The Loser specializes in turning that alarm off, or discounting the alarm. For male Losers, when we ask why they aren’t allowed to see their children (an alarm!)they describe how their ex has brainwashed the children and rather than traumatize them, he’s elected to keep his distance until they can realize how much he loves them. In truth - it’s a restraining/protection order!
Your family and friends never left. They floated overhead like guardian angels until you emerged from captivity. Keep in mind that Losers also float overhead, only like vultures. Keep your guard up and your family and friends close.
Keep any contact short and sweet and get shorter and less sweet with each contact.
Best wishes on your release from the nightmare. I’m happy to be a small part of your recovery. Dr. Carver
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Pat25
Dear Doctor Carver,
Thanks for your reply and reassuring advice. I can see that part of the way these people keep a hold on their victims is by intimidating them and he certainly intimidated me. I had all sorts of scenarios going through my head thinking that he might do something violent (or get someone else to do something violent)to me or my property just to get back at me. I was worrying that he might think “If I can’t have her, no-one will”….
You’re right though…I don’t think he’ll do anything dramatic. He’ll just subtly try to get back into my life by saying all those things you mentioned. As long as I’m prepared for this, I can cope with it.
I will take your advice and just be short and sweet with him if he does try to contact me.
All my friends and family are so relieved that I’ve had the sense to get out of this. It’s only now that they can tell me, they didn’t know how to when I was with him.
Thanks again, Doctor Carver. Your article really helped me to see things clearly because I understand his psychology now and it gave me back my confidence in my instincts.
Pat
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24
Dear Pat:
As you discovered, the Losers I describe in my article have shallow emotions. When they form a relationship, most of their emotional investment is in what they can get out of the situation - not their partner. For this reason, if the relationship fails, they have minimal emotional investment and can quickly move on. It’s like buying a $300 automobile and driving it for many months. If it stops working, people say “I didn’t have much invested in it anyway” and look for another car. They don’t bother to try to fix it, send it to the shop to see what’s wrong, etc. These same shallow emotions allow them to target their next victim very quickly and fall in love all over again. When 80% of your “romantic love” is for you (narcissism), it’s easy to start a new loving relationship. You don’t have to put much emotional investment in it.
As I mention in my article, the rapid warm-up is a classic sign. You mention being “swept away”. In reality, things that sweep us away are typically floods, hurricanes, tornados, etc. - all disasters.
From his standpoint, you will be on back burner. Each contact is a measure of his opportunity to victimize you again. Are you polite? Do you chat? This could go on for months or even years.
He’s not likely to make some dramatic return however. It will be more subtle and manipulative than that. It typically goes 1) I miss you so much, 2) I realize I treated you poorly, 3) I can’t believe I’ve done this, 4) I see everything in a different light now, 5) I don’t deserve a good person like you, and 6) I don’t want us to be enemies (and you should invite me for dinner!). Once back into your life - the hell starts all over again. Keep in mind, he has no problem destroying your life, self-esteem or personal situation.
Move on with your life. If you get one of those calls, remind him that he now has valuable information about himself to use in his next relationship. Wish him good luck and hang up.
Dr. Carver -
Skyla23
Thanks Dr. Carver,
I think you are right, I haven’t heard the last from him in regards to getting to me.
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Pat22
Dear Dr Carver,
He has contacted me a few times about practicalities - but apart from that, nothing. I am obviously relieved that he isn’t pestering me and is leaving me alone, but I feel so humiliated and so stupid for having been conned by him. I can’t believe I was taken in by him. I just feel so lonely and so empty now. I still feel fearful that he is going to do something nasty as well and find myself looking over my shoulder all the time.
If he has decided that he doesn’t want to be with me, do you think that will be the end of it? I’m really nervous that as soon as I relax and start living my life again, he’s going to spring something on me.
I know that he is probably “keeping me on the back burner” and I have to be prepared for the unexpected phonecall or visit out of the blue.
It’s horrible living in this state of tension, waiting for something to happen that might not happen…
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Pat21
Hello Dr Carver,
I read your article for the first time yesterday and it has been an enormous help and comfort to me. I was with a man for three years who drank heavily and constantly critisise. We would have huge arguments, usually after drinking a lot, and I would always be left feeling guilty, confused and humiliated afterwards. He was also very jealous and would never believe me if I denied flirting with other men. I managed to eventually leave the relationship for good after leaving and going back to him countless times. He always went back to his old ways even though he promised me the world if I went back to him. He never said “I love you” or made any mention of committing to me in any way, nevermind marriage. It was only when I accepted that he never loved me and never would that I finally put a stop to the relationship for good.
I went for counselling to try to get my head together and it helped a lot. My cousellor said that I showed a lot of signs of having a co-dependent character so I read a lot of books on that subject and I learnt a lot from it.
It’s been three years since that ended and I finally started feeling like I was ready for a new relationship. Then someone came into my life like a whirlwind. I was so happy to finally meet someone who seemed to share all my interests, who seemed to be so caring and kind to all his friends and family, didn’t drink too much, who seemed to totally adore me, who wanted to be with me all the time, who showered me with compliments and told me “I love you” after only a few days, and most of all, was already talking about marriage and children. I was totally swept away!
However, I started to have little niggling doubts occasionally by things he said and did. Once he’d said “I love you”, he started demanding that I say the same to him. Just the fact that he was so desperate to marry me and have my babies should have been warning bells enough but that’s what I desperately want too. He proposed to me within two weeks and I was so swept away by it all, I accepted. He had introduced me to all his family and children by a previous partner within two weeks of meeting him.
Now I look at it with a bit of perspective, I realise that The Loser was being controlling in lots of other ways. He wanted me to change my hair for him, kept saying that I should always support him even if I thought he was wrong, he kept saying things like “you never call me”, “you never drive” or ” you didn’t think of buying me some cigarettes while you were away”, also “now you’ve met my family, you have to stay with me forever” and things like that which made me feel guilty and obliged to do things for him. He kept insisting that I eat even if I wasn’t hungry as well which was weird but then would say really nasty things about other women if they were overweight. He didn’t like any of my friends and saying they were ugly and took no interest in my family at all, even though they had been very friendly and welcoming. He also seemed to like play-fighting with me and biting me so I bruised. He wouldn’t stop doing that either, even when I asked him to stop. Sex was very rough too and didn’t seem to be compatible with his proclaimations of love. He always wanted to know all the details of where I had been and who I had seen and would always be irritated if I was a little late meeting him or if I didn’t immediately reply to his texts or answer his calls. He also kept saying things like he was a modern man and he didn’t believe in letting the woman do all the work around the house like a slave - funnily enough, I was the only one who ever did the dishes in his house!
Anyway, I was still all wrapped up in the whirlwind of it and it was such a novelty getting all this attention. A week ago, he suddenly started saying that he didn’t like the way I talked to his friend and thought that I was flirting with him. He asked straight out if we had ever slept together. I told him no and I would never had anyway. He started saying that I couldn’t flirt like that with other guys. I wasn’t even flirting, I was just being friendly and silly with his friend. Anyway, later on, his friend came into the cafe we we sitting in and I’ve never felt so uncomfortable in all my life. I wasn’t even sure if it was ok to look into his friend’s eyes or not, never mind talk to him.
It wasn’t until Saturday morning that I woke up from this dream. He had talked to me about his ex late into the night, the night before, until 3am. I had kept saying that I’m tired and need to sleep and he would just say ” ok go to sleep ” but then I’d feel guilty because he was telling me something important about his life. So I stayed awake listening to it. She had left him two times and both times without telling him and took the children away from him for long periods of time. The first time, he found out that she was at her parents house and he beat the front door down and punched her father. He was saying that they were really racist towards him, but still, that was no reason to beat someone’s door down. The second time, she tried to leave early in the morning and tried to take lots of things from the house with her father and his friend. Again, he beat up the two men and called the police.
To be honest, I was beginning to feel a bit uneasy about the violence involved. I had only heard the story from his point of view so even though he made her out to be a completely evil person, you never know the whole story unless you’ve heard the other person’s too. He might have been verbally abusive to her as he was beginning to be to me…who knows…he never married her that’s for sure and he kept telling me how she had always wanted to marry him but he never agreed to it.
Anyway, to make it worse, after I had very kindly listened to what he had to say and then he had the cheek to say that I should now see that my problems in previous relationships where nothing compared to his. I was so tired by this point, I just agreed and asked if we could go to sleep. I think he might have been a little annoyed about it because I got bad vibes from him.
The next morning, I woke up at six and he hugged me. I felt like making love and I thought he did too but he didn’t do anything. I decided to turn over and go to sleep but then suddenly he initiated sex. It was very quick, very cold and left me feeling humiliated. This had happened before on a previous occasion where he with-held affection and love-making and I had got quite upset. He asked me what was wrong and I said that I felt that I should get some enjoyment out of sex as well as him. He responded with “F*****g hell, I’ve only had three hours sleep!”. This just made me so angry and upset - especially as he thought it was ok to swear at me like that. I just jumped out of bed and said ” If you didn’t want to do it, you didn’t have to” and then I just started saying about how I need some satisfaction out of sex as well as him. He just started saying ” Oh god, don’t start giving me any more f******g problems - I can’t take this!” It carried on like that for a while and he kept looking at me as if I was completely mad. I asked him if he would prefer I don’t say anything about how I’m feeling and just smile and accept everything. He couldn’t answer that - only “Just stop it, stop giving me more problems” and ” Why are you making such a big deal about just sex?” - I said that I thought sex was a really important part of a relationship and the sex we’d just had didn’t feel very loving to me.
In the end I asked him to take me home. I was really really distraught. I just had to go off and sit by myself for a while in a park and really think it all over. I texted him to say that I could see that he didn’t have any time or energy for me and that he had too much on his mind to consider my needs. He rang back saying that he thought I was right and that we should meet up later so that he could give me back my belongings that I had left at his house.
The whole day, I just thought things through. I had a look on the internet for “early warning signs of an abusive partner” and the list seemed to describe him perfectly( I didn’t read your article until the next day). I started to realise that I had made another terrible mistake and I had to end it immediately.
I met him in a bar and the meeting only lasted ten seconds. I just said ” I don’t feel comfortable with this anymore” and he said ” I don’t either” I gave him back the engagement ring and he gave me back his. I wished him well and left.
I felt relieved but also really sad that I’ve let myself down AGAIN. At least this time, I’ve seen the warning signs pretty early on and have had the sense to get out of it immediately. In my previous relationship, I’d let it go on for three years hoping that he would change.
Since then I’ve been away with work and while I was away he texted me to ask if we meet at the bank to close the joint account that we (stupidly) had opened to save money for the wedding. I agreed and met him yesterday afternoon to close the account. I was really nervous but I was very business-like with him. He seemed absolultely fine and not nervous or emotional at all. He was saying how he hoped that we could be friends and I said that was not possible after such an intense relationship but I said that I hoped we could be civil to each other if we saw each other in the street. The fact that he showed no sadness or regret whatsoever makes me realise that everything he has ever said to me was a huge pack of lies. He was just trying to sell himself to me like a he would a car. The sales-pitch definately got me but when it came to making love he couldn’t act anymore. I think he decided to drop me (thankfully) because he thinks I’m a mad woman just giving him more problems on top of the ones he already has. I’m quite happy to let him think that, as long as he leaves me alone and I’m very aware that he would never accept that he has hurt me in any way.
I’ve since read your article and it describes him exactly! It makes me feel less “crazy” for deciding to end it and also much stronger because I know how to deal with him if he phones. He has phoned a few times about mundane things, like a letter arriving for me in my name and asking if he can bring it over. I just spoke to him in a calm, polite manner, not emotional at all, refusing him to come over, but just telling him to put it in the post again with my address on it. He responded very civilly and we said goodbye.
It’s just so weird how he seems to have no feeling whatsoever for me now after that intense three week period of telling me over and over again that he loved me. Everything in your article makes perfect sense and it gives me and answer to his behaviour. I feel so lucky that I’ve got out of this sooner rather than later but I do feel very lonely and quite low at the moment. I just need time to pick up the pieces and put myself back together again.
I’m just left feeling slightly nervous because this all seemed so easy. Is he going to pull some nasty stunt to get his own back? I keep looking to see if his car is following me and feel very jumpy if someone knocks on the door. I suppose I shouldn’t worry about that unless it happens.
Sorry this is such a long message. Thankyou again for your article which just explains so clearly the way these people think - once you understand that, you have the formula to get away from them with the minimal of suffering.
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