Comments on “Overwhelming Response to Threads on Relationship Losers”
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76 Responses to “Overwhelming Response to Threads on Relationship Losers”
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Kate V20
Thank you. This has helped me more than you can know. I have thought up until now that the only way forward was to present this to the kids as a mutual and amicable decision to divorce by both parents, knowing full well my husband would then sabotage the story totally. I have felt that I had to protect his dignity. (Why do we do this?!?) I realise now that telling the children that he has been “mean to me”, and this is why we can not live together anymore, is ok. After all, they have seen it with their own eyes plenty of times. This is a huge relief. It takes so much pressure off me. My husband is trying to make it my FAULT in the eyes of the kids. I can turn it round and make it my DECISION. Thank you again, Kate
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19
Dear Kate, You are not alone in this situation. Like most healthy spouses, you have shielded the children from his behavior as much as possible and this is appropriate as they have no way of understanding his behavior. You have also experienced the multitude of manipulations we often find when trying to separate from a controller and abuser. You’ll hear “I love you and the children sooo much” - at the same time they are busy withdrawing/blocking all money and try to cut off the utilities to the home. It sounds like you are handling this as well as you can.
Informing the children involves several steps. 1) Try to be honest, within the range the children can understand. Let them know that he was mean to you, hit you, or treated you badly. 2) Assure them that the situation has nothing to do with them. 3) Let them know that he is still angry at you which is why he does and says angry things sometimes. 4) Allow them to ask questions.
In a separation/divorce, kids lose their security foundation and develop very basic fears. These fears are issues we already know as adults and don’t think much about. While it seems simple to us, it’s basic to children. For example 1) tell them you will still be their parent and they’ll always have a place to live, 2) tell them the family will still have money/food/car, 3) let them know that they will be allowed to see their father, 4) tell them they will stay togethers as siblings, 5) let them know they will still see all the grandparents, relatives, etc. 5) remind them that their behavior didn’t make Dad angry or create the separation, 6) assure them that school will be the same (if that’s true), 7) assure them they will not be left alone, and 8) assure them that they will remain with you although Dad will see them.
As you’ve noticed, he will use the children against you. Abusers often use the pretense of calling the children, talking for 2 minutes, then “Let me speak to your mother”, at which time they use the opportunity to verbally assault you. When the assault begins, end it with “This isn’t about the children” and stop the conversation.
The Internet is full of hints and guidelines for this difficult passage. Right now, you’re on the right path. Dr. Carver
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Kate Vorley18
Dear Dr Carver
Hello, I can not tell you how grateful I am to have come acrros this website.
After 11 years of marriage and 3 children to a man who typifies most of the behaviour decribed in your 20 “Loser Characteristics” I have finally had enough and have filed for divorce. Matters were brought to a head after he physically assaulated me whilst very drunk, not for the first time I might add. The police were called and he now has a criminal conviction for this.
His behaviour since the divorce petition was served has been absolutely typical of what you might expect: constant bombardment of (one-way) communications : controlling, abusive, manipulative, guilt-inducing, totally in denial about his own actions, refusing to take responsibility for anything, blaming me totally, menacing, and yet in turns pleading and wanting to come back home… We have had suicide threats, attempts to kick the front door down, sobbing voicemails, withdrawal of all funds, refusal to see or even speak to the children, everything… In the end I had to had to get an injunction against him and an occupancy order on the family house. I have had absolutely no personal contact with him whatsoever in the three months since he attacked me. Partly because he was intially on police bail pending trial; partly because I have nothing to say to the man because of what he did to me; partly because there is now an injunction against him, and partly becuase I know it is the only way to deal with him - contact “feeds the monster”.
My BIG problem, and question to you, is how to manage the children. They have seen their father twice in three months. They are 9, 6 and 5. They love him dearly and over their lives I have managed to shield them form the worst excesses of his behaviour. To date I have not told them about the divorce because he does not accept it is happening. Initially I said that daddy had gone to stay with a friend as we were fighting a lot and that we needed to live apart for a while to sort out what we did next. He then sabotaged the story by saying that HE wanted to come home but MUMMY wouldn’t let him, and this had made him so sad he had become sick…. and he has told them recently that “daddy is very sick and is going into hospital”. (He may well be having residential treatment for depression, but I suspect not). They are obviously very sad about this, but accepting.
He says he loves the children, but has no real empathy with them and their position (refuses to see them currently) and has totally inappropriate telephone conversations with them all about HIM, and not about their well-being. It will of course, continue like this, I know. I have excellent lawyers and they will take steps to prevent the children from having contact with their father if he continues to behave inappropriately with them, BUT that still leaves me with the big headache of explaining this very adult problem to very little people…
Can you recommend an approach to take with the kids, or a resource to guide me (on-line or book) to help me? I am so alone here. I really want to do the right thing and I want my children’s father to play an active role in their lives, for their sake, but I know it is going to be so very hard and damaging potentially.
Thank you so very much.
Kate
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Sally17
Your comments have made me turn an enormous corner of feeling strong. Somehow, hearing it from a professional who specializes in this area, someone who doesn’t even know me plus reading other peoples accounts of Controllers has really brought it home to me how serious all this is and how very important it is for no contact at all. The Emotional Memory link and Stockholm Syndrome were essential reading. Friends have been helpful but in the back of my mind I always thought that maybe they were only supporting me because of my friendship with them. If they were friends of the controller, I thought that maybe they would be supporting him and calling me bad and that it was my fault. These conflicting thoughts made me question myself even though I had ‘evidence’ of experiencing 18 out of the 20 points you made in the ‘Warning Signs You’re Dating A Controller’. I expect further contact from the Controller which I intend to totally ignore….. forever. This will be the hardest challenge that I think I have ever set myself. I didn’t realise that it can take so long time to heal. I left him 13 months ago and I’m still not quite there, although I am on the homeward stretch. This bit of the road feels a lot calmer and maybe easier in a way now because I have had such huge support and the final shove by Dr Carver. Thank you so very much.
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16
Dear Mack,
Glad to be of help….
Dr. Carver -
Mack15
Thank you. I needed to hear that.
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14
Dear Mack,
You are completely free now. But free, decent, nice, kind, and friendly people protect themselves. Protecting ourselves from toxic, criminal, abusive, con-artist, and manipulative people doesn’t put us in prison, it protects us so we can continue to be kind, loving, and friendly to others. You protect yourself in a variety of ways…you haven’t responded to the Nigerian Email Scam - yet you’re still free.Psychologists often focus on the “normal curve” - a statistical concept that describes almost every situation - most experiences being in the “normal range” and about 3% rare experiences in the top and bottom. Everyone’s had their BEST meal and WORST meal, that sort of thing. Best car, worst car etc. As your life and love continues, you’ll be adding friendships and people to this scale. Mr. Toxicity/Loser will probably be your bottom 3% - hopefully you won’t have any more of those. We all have folks in or approaching the bottom end of the scale as well as people we feel honored to know and love. These bottom folks are not “enemies” sometimes, just folks who are toxic to our healthy personality that we stay away from. People stay emotionally healthy by being self-protective and staying away from these toxic individuals when they are identified. That doesn’t put us in a jail, it just keeps us on the right path in life. People who are emotionally healthy are highly self-protective - they don’t have toxic friends, they avoid bad influences, avoid behaviors that create difficulties, etc.
Stay on your path. Don’t look back. You are feeling more human and your life hasn’t fallen apart. Above all, when your self-confidence returns to full strength, don’t test it by contacting Mr. Toxicity. An abusers style is designed to destroy that self-confidence and despite your decent intentions, Mr. Toxicity has no decent intentions and will draw you back to the same hell you have just survived. Dr. Carver
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Mack13
Dr. Carver, I don’t mean to imply that I’m only “free” if he and I are on good terms, since I have a great time hanging out with real people, and my life has certainly not fallen apart since I broke off our relationship. In fact I’d say that I’m feeling more human now than I was at the end of the whole debacle. It’s just that he’s the only blemish on my friendship record and that does bother me. I’d like to be decent, even to my “enemies.” And I can’t say I’ve had enemies before so I barely know what to do with them.
I just noticed I mistyped your name in that last post. Sorry. :-) -
Mack12
Hi Dr. Carter. I guess I come back here every so often to remind myself of what I escaped from. So I was just reading your response to Sally, and I’m not entirely sure the prison metaphor works.
Occasionally, like today, I find myself wanting to just be myself — open, sensitive, and genuine. I’d like to be able to make brief, casual contact with my ex and just say “hi” and “what’s going on” or “congrats,” but I really can’t do that because he’s such a crook and I know he’s a mess; I’ve seen it before, I know he’s toxic to me, and I can’t afford the collateral. So I haven’t initiated contact & I haven’t done any of the kinds of decent, friendly things that are native to me.
So who’s behind bars? Not him: he’s still out there roaming free, being false to *other* people. Aren’t I the one who’s constrained really? That sucks!
Help me out here, please. -
11
Dear Sally,
I’d recommend reading my article on Love and Stockholm Syndrome available on this website. That’s not an unbilical cord - it’s a ball and chain! He’s currently keeping you on “back burner” while he victimizes his current target. Once she’s depleted emotionally and financially, he’ll return to you until he finds another target, then you’re alone once more.Losers can’t be “cured” in the clinical sense. They think and operate totally differently than healthy adults. They are social predators who lie, manipulate, use and abuse those around them - all the while blaming the victim for their behavior.
You might inform the current victim but it probably won’t help. She’s being told that you - the “ex” - mistreated him while he did everything possible to make you happy. She’s also being told that you would do anything to break them up - because you’re so jealous - so your email might fall on deaf ears. While she’s being provide one group of lies, you’re likely getting the other - he misses you, realizes he’s made a mistake, feels trapped with his current partner (victim), etc. The current victim is on front burner, you’re on the back of the stove.
I’d recommend counseling to assist you in sorting out the situation. It’s helpful to print the Loser article and take it to the counselor with something like “This is what I’m dealing with”.
We receive information from folks in two ways - what they say and what they do. If both match - we’ve likely got an honest and responsible person. In Losers, they have no problem saying anything to anybody but their behavior is how they truely are. His behavior tells you he is maintaining a sweet-talking sidebar relationship with you, being totally disloyal to his current victim, and planning romance with you while with her. It doesn’t get plainer than that. He’s probably done the same to you in the past.
An unbilical cord provides nourishment and life-sustaining support. You clearly don’t have an unbilical cord. Your connection is a ball and chain in you’re trying to tread water in the emotional ocean. You need to protect yourself and consider this experience a valuable lesson in life. Dr. Carver
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