Comments on “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”
You are browsing comments for the story “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”.
You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here.
89 Responses to “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”
-
Richard80
Hello Dr. Carver,
I am very distressed over this topic, and I believe I am one of these ‘Losers’. During the relationship I feel like I am honest, loyal, understanding…but the end result is always the same, and the women I date end up hating me.
My most recent relationship ended because i was unable to meet her ’standards’ for a mate. We started off in the ‘honeymoon’ phase, as normal?, and moved very quickly into wanting to be intimate and planning for our future together. During the course of the first few months, which were amazing, I lost my job because I had talked myself into a position that I was unqualified for. After my dismissal, she dropped me like a hot rock and tried to get back with her ex-husband, whom she had previously labeled ‘psychopathic’…when i confronted her she denied everything and was aloof to lying about it. I directed the problems inward and blamed myself…and she foisted much fault onto me, also.
In the end what she wanted, which was drastically different than what we had wanted in the beginning, was for me to make 80k so that she would feel comfortable settling down with me and having children. The original plan was to make everything 50/50, and share the responsibility. I, being a guy, convinced myself that it was normal for the female to want to be ‘taken care of’, so I attempted to meet her goals.
The last few months were casual hanging out, and more and more fault-finding. I eventually got very depressed, and agreed to start medication to correct my ‘imbalances’…like she does for hers.
My question is: How do i know for sure if i am a ‘Loser’, or if she was the ‘Loser’, or if we both were, or if i was just getting depressed and emotionally drained as a result of her demands, or as a result of being an emotional vampire and not having my needs met?
I go into every relationship with the same goal…to have a companion and a friend that i can count on and that can count on me. I think I had problems discerning how much of the damage was really my fault, and how much was hers.
I know this is probably sounding very ‘all over the map’…but to me it is exponentially confusing. She eventually told me that I was ‘an opportunistic loser that would never be anywhere but where I was right now’…and that hurt me so bad I don’t ever want anything to do with her again.
I am not a victim, but I feel that I just choose bad mates.
I have become obsessed in finding what my issue is, and why i am alone for years at a time. I think I either have a lot of narcissistic tendencies, ‘Loser’ tendencies, and bad bouts of depression…or none of that and i am just hurt and finding fault with myself because I have been with so many abusive people.Can you help me? Is this even making sense?
-
Monda79
Dr. Carver,
Thanks so much for writing how to recognize a loser. I’ve grown so much. I really have a sense of direction for what I want in my life and for any children I should have. I never recognized abuse fully for what it is and in all the ways that it will come out. I never really knew how abusive some men can be and how a lot of women do not recognize abuse or acknowledge when being abused.
Thank you so very much.
Best Wishes…
-
78
Dear Linda, Thanks for your kind words. Glad to be of help…and keep your slot machine unplugged! Dr. Carver
-
Linda77
Thank you once again for clarifying what normal healthy individuals should do. When constantly bombarded with his twisted view of the situation it’s been diffiuclt for me to stay confident in my actions. I am truly grateful for your clear and concise recomendations and I feel confident that I have this under control now. I can see how within a very short period of time a person like this could make me a total wreck. You are truly a godsend to everyone that you offer your advice to and please keep up the good work because you are definitely making a difference in people’s lives.
-
76
Dear Leslie: Glad to be of help. Dr. Carver
-
75
Dear Linda: There’s no getting through to him because he’s not interested in what you want - only what he wants. Healthy folks often feel others must understand and accept the situation. This doesn’t work for antisocial personalities and in fact, as you’ve seen, they use that against you. He will refuse to understand although keep in mind, he knows exactly what’s going on. He will continue to use guilt, social pressure, and subtle intimidation if needed.
If you’ve been “weak” - you’ve been playing slot machine with him - four days of rejection followed by a “weak moment”. Those weak moments assure him that you’ve not completely made your mind up and in fact, can probably be bullied to accept his position…it just takes more work. You’ll need to be all business and firm - the relationship is over, he needs to get his “things” one last time, and then change the locks. You might want to consider installing a security system if you have the money. That may keep him out of your house while you’re on vacation. Keep in mind there’s no polite or comfortable way to get out of this situation. No discussions, no talking about old times, and no concern about money he has provided. He’s lived there too. Losers often want tremendous credit for providing support they should be providing in the first place - paying their share of expenses, cutting the grass, chores, etc. They want you to feel obligated to them for simply paying their share.
Use the exit strategies outlined in my Loser article and remember, a “weak” episode is good for another ten episodes of harassment. They don’t detach until the slot machine is unplugged.
Focus on the theme of his responsibility. You mention that you feel bad about calling the police when it’s his criminal behavior you’re dealing with. Remind him that breaking the locks is burglary and that setting off the alarm system can violate his parole status. HE IS responsible for his parole, not you. He would have you believe that YOU are responsible for keeping him out of trouble with parole - a position that allows him to trespass, burglarize your home, ignore your rights, etc. Typical criminal behavior. Let him know that after a certain point, it’s his behavior and the law - not his behavior and you. Also don’t listen to 45 minute conversations designed to emotionally exhaust you. Contacts are business only. If he’s gotten his things, there is nothing else to talk about. Dr. Carver
-
Leslie74
Thank you Dr. Carver. I will follow your advice. We will see how this eventually evolves.. Thank you again for all of your advice and support; I am never quite sure if my instincts are on or off track, so hearing your feedback has meant everything to me!
Sincerely,
Leslie -
Linda73
Dear Dr. Carver,
I need more advise and I don’t know where to turn for help. As I stated in my previous post I bought a house in January where I was living with my boyfriend. I have invested a considerable amount of cash in the down payment as well as the mortgage and furnishings etc are all on my credit. Problem is I have gotten him out of the house in that he does not live there anymore but he continually comes to the house. Sometimes when I am not there and goes through my things.
I won’t lie I have been weak at first but I have made it clear to him repeatedly that I want to be alone. I am certain now that I want him out of my life and am willing to do anything to make that happen. He has paid some bills and given me about $2000.00 towards the down payment and house payments since January. The question is how can I get him to stay away from me without involoving the police. I don’t want to cost him his parole and I feel somewhat obligated to him because of the of financial help he’s given to me. He can’t afford to take over the house by any means but I have even offered that to him as an option. If he could get a mortgage I would just let him have everything for what’s owed on it. I would be out a considerable sum of money but I don’t care I just want to feel right about all of this and get it over. He puts tremendous guilt and social pressure on me everyday to let him come home to his “Home” and “Woman”.
I am planning to leave on a 2 week vacation in 3 weeks and I don’t want to leave this up in the air like this. I’m afraid of what he will do when he realizes I am gone. I haven’t told him I’m going anywhere and I don’t intend to. Should I change the locks and just go hoping for the best? I have found out that there is just no getting through to him and every conversation just goes in a circle revolving around what “he wants”. He’ll stop at no end to manipulate me and pressure me with guilt. Please help. You’re reference to my “dark Journey” hit the nail on the head and I simply can’t do this anymore.
Thank You so Much Linda
-
72
Dear Leslie: Your script is very articulate and addresses many of the important issues in your “drama”. I’d present it to him as your thoughts on how the situation might be approached. He’ll have to read it and organize his own thoughts…if he’s ready to make that move. Even with some guidance from your script, it’s still a big move on his part, and on the part of the daughter. It could be perceived as a move to cut Mom out of the situation, something daughter may not be ready to do. There’s a tendency in these complex situations not to rock the boat due to the apprehension of what reaction may surface.
I think you’re wise to monitor this situation from an emotionally safe distance. The parties involved may still be in the transition stage and not quite ready for a full-blown change of the arrangements.
Good luck and remember that your script is an example of how he can say something. He’ll need to phrase those issues in his own words when he decides to make the move.
Dr. Carver -
Leslie71
Hello Dr. Carver,
Thank you for your kind response, it is extremely helpful. You are a generous, kind soul, and have found a way to contribute to the world in a productive and compassionate way. You are saving many people’s lives. Thank you.
Thank you for your analysis of my complex ‘drama’. I wish it were easier to communicate. And I have taken your advice about my sanity - we are halting romantic involvement and are just maintaining our friendship for all of our sake.
Your response helped me to come up with a potential script for dad to ‘enter’ an exit strategy with daughter. I am hoping I can run it past you just in case of any severe flaws or hazards. Based on your analysis of mom and her motivation behind her newly revealed ‘feelings’ for dad, combined with the ultimate goal of having (1) a direct relationship with daughter and (2) a business-only relationship with the mother, the next time dad spends time with daughter, maybe he can say something like:
“(daughter), I owe you an apology. As you are aware, your mother recently revealed that she has feelings for me, and what that made me realize is that my time spent with you (which is often partially spent with her) over the last few years has ignited some sort desire for reconciliation in her or in both of you, and for that, I am extremely sorry. It’s important that you understand, so that you can do what you need to do to have some closure about this, that with 100 percent certainty, your mother and I will not be getting back together, now or ever in the future.
What I am also realizing is that it is no longer appropriate to spend time with her and behave in any way that could enable her to hope for a relationship with me, when I just want to spend time with you individually. When I visit you and end up spending time with her too, it has the effect of keeping her hope alive about a future for us, and that is not only unfair to her, but it is cruel and insensitive due to the fact that it is preventing her from truly moving on and letting go of the past. So out of compassion for her, care for you, and the sanity of all 3 of us, I am going to do something that is going to require alot of courage, (and I hope that I can count on your support on this) Your mother desperately needs to develop a life separately and independently of me. My seeing her and engaging in communication with her is just keeping her stuck. Her contact with me inhibits her ability to move on in life; I can’t in good conscience do that to her - or to anyone else for that matter. The kindest, most respectful, most sensitive thing I can do to help your mother now is to let her go. The bravest thing I can do, and the bravest thing she can do, and the bravest thing you can do if you want to help us, is to just let go and help us in our separation of our relationship to one another. This means we will each need to establish our own independent relationships with you.
In life, one of the most unselfish, kindest, compassionate and loving thing a person can do for another is to help them let go of the things that are preventing them from moving forward. Some people become so comfortable with what they have that they cling to them, and when faced with the possibility of change, might even do desperate things to keep them or get very angry and act outrageous (noone ever said change was easy!), but this in time, passes too. Your mother may become very uncomfortable during this time, but just know that it is all just part of the growing process, and we must remain strong and stick to our convictions through the pain, even if we get desperate. Eventually, we discover the miracle - that we have wings just like everyone else. We can use them, or we can find another situation that will keep us stuck in a similar way that we were before. But if we take the time to nurture and spread our wings, we’ll discover that we can fly! (kind of like what you’re doing you go off to school.) It’s one of the joys in life! Right now I am robbing your mom of the possibility of that joy, and in good conscience can no longer stand in the way of your mom’s right to live her own life and discover things for herself. She can always choose not to, she could just find another person to take the place of me, but either way, that’s her choice and there are plenty of people out there that she can look to for guidance and support; I am not one of them – that is why we are divorced. My being in the picture at this point is just keeping her stuck in the past, and that is not healthy for any of us. Now what we all need is to set appropriate boundaries and limits with with each other.
*****
What would you change, delete, or add? Is the part about the mom acting out appropriate or enough? (Mom will surely threaten/attempt everything in the book according to past, possibly even suicide - that’s what she did 20 years ago when this whole thing got started and why she and dad got pregnant to begin with.) Is there a way to address that possibility appropriately? Like offer to pay for mom’s counseling should her threats get this extreme, etc? ANy obvious risks in this script to father/daughter’s relationship?Your input would be an incredible help. Thank you again, you have been a Godsend!!
Leslie
Pages: « 9 [8] 7 6 5 4 3 … 1 »