“Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True” Comments, Page 1
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89 Responses to “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”
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James
1[Editor's Note: This comment has been moved from the previous discussion thread for Dr Carver's article.]
Dr. Carver, I have started my therapy and was prescribed Effexor XR which are working very well for me. One thing that I notice is that my children ages 12 and 15 are dealing with this much better then I. I asked them one day about that and my oldest told me “Dad, I just don’t think about it”. I did want them to go to therapy as well but they didn’t want to and I asked therapies about that and was told that if they don’t want to, it may not do any good to push it at this time. I did tell the children that if I saw some dramatic change in their personality that I would have to insist on getting them help to assist them in finding the problem(s). My question is why are they (again if they are) dealing with this situation better then I? Am I missing something, maybe just being a parent? Should I push this issue on them? I know I need therapy and it’s a good form of support. I just want them to have every possible tool and/or support as possible. I did ask the boys to come meet my therapies (a white lie) because it would help me. Any help with this would be appreciated.
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Dear James: Marital separation and divorce is highly stressful for adults as the event significantly impacts their social, financial, living, emotional, family, and life situation. If the custodial home is stable, children of divorce often adjust quicker as they are unaware of the adult-level changes that have taken place. In short – their needs are being met.
I wouldn’t push your children into therapy as yet, especially if they are adjusting well. Let them know that counseling is available if they’d like to talk to a “third party”.
With children, you’ll often find them having specific questions like “Will Mom be at my high school graduation?” Answer those questions directly but don’t flood them with an additional 20 questions about their emotional status. When you respond easily to single questions, they will become comfortable asking more questions, thus improving communication and their adjustment to the situation.
Keep in mind that as an adult, your stressors are on-going while from a teenagers standpoint, their stressors are often viewed as situational.
You’re on the right course…it’s just difficult.
Dr. Carver -
James3
Thank you Dr. Carver and I agree pushing this issue with them about therapy isn’t necessary right now. Thanks again for your reply..
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keith
4Dr Carver, I have just read the posting about “the Loser” a lot of the points relate to me, is there any way out, I have a partner, I need help and advice if there is any.
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Alex
5Hello Dr Carver, I’m a big fan of your articles and recommended them to other people as well. I’d just like to ask a question that I’ve been wondering about for a while, be it an academic sort of question…
Do you think there are two kinds of abusers, the ones that have a really twisted sense of reality and don’t realize they are doing anything wrong actually believe it was the victim’s fault etc., and another kind who know they need to be in control and plan things out rationally?
Thank you for your time..
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Sura
6I dunno where to begin. i am a 21 yr old sikh girl from glasgow. To put it mildly, this year has been absolute hell. being an indian it is unacceptable in my culture to date as arranged marriage is the norm. This is my story.
I am the youngest of 5 daughters in my family. Being a girl I wasnt allowed to go out, have friends, do things that kids normally do cos “indian girls dont do that”. I never really understood that reason. because of this I was bullied and tormented a lot in school. I never socialised with any of my classmates outside school hours, not because I didnt want to, its because I wasnt allowed to.
Fast forward to this year. I had a job since early 2005, and met someone from there in september…my first boyfriend. I had to hand over my paychecks to my parents, and once I was forced to quit in february this year they made me give them control of all my savings bank account which were 4,000 pounds – roughly $8,000 US. I never saw a penny of my year’s worth of work.
So early this year my family found out about me having a bf – a capital sin. I was forced to break it with him, forced to quit work and forced to stay inside the house for 5 months – only been allowed outside the house unescorted 3 times in those 5 months.
Now since uni started again I’m only allowed to go there and back home. I am not allowed to have friends, hang out around white people, talk on the phone or even on the internet with people. My e-mail and msn are monitorred by a sister. I am not allowed to choose my hairstyle or the clothes I wear.
Since then on I got pushed, spit on, grabbed by the jaw, forcefully held, threatened to be “dealt with”, be “put in place”, have my face rearranged, I get called all names under the sun, must have been called a bitc*h thousands of times, get yelled at and put down for the stupidest of reasons like forgetting to dry the dishes.
I felt guilty many times about all this, that I deserve it for dishonouring my family by having a bf, I’m beginning to think about leaving after I graduate in May now but don’t know if I’ll have the strength…
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Dear Keith: Your ability to recognize the situation and willingness to improve is half the battle. I often recommend printing my handout and taking it to a therapist, along with a comment like “This is how I behave. Can you help me fix this?”
You may also want to explore your background. Did you have a model for this behavior – a parent perhaps? There is a lot of help available, starting with consultation with a mental health professional. Dr. Carver -
8
Dear Alex: Complex question. We see both in clinical practice. In most situations, the “Loser” is a personality disorder by mental health terms and has over the years, developed a distorted sense of reality and a self-serving belief system. In extreme form, a criminal personality, views of life/reality are so distorted that they have no concern for others at all. These folks don’t have second thoughts about how they abuse or harm others – it’s just what they do. These folks are con artists who rationally plan to harm, abuse, use, and manipulate others.
At the other end of the line are individuals who have “Loser” characteristics and may be partially aware that they are manipulative and abusive – but continue to act that way because it benefits them. They may have misgivings about some of their behaviors but it doesn’t last long. Their need to control situations is more important to them than anything else. These folks, unlike the criminal personalities, control and abuse people for less-than-criminal goals such as controlling a relationship or intimidating others socially.
Both groups can be very rational and purposeful in their harmful dealings with others. Dr. Carver -
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Dear Sura, Your situation is a complex combination of family issues and multiple cultures. Clearly, you are being pulled between two very different cultures and family belief systems.
You may want to seek support and advice from others in your situation as they too have faced these issues. At the university, are these instructors with your cultural background who can offer advice about blending these cultures? Are there websites that address these concerns?
While European mental health professionals may support and emphasize independence, this type of advice may be in direct conflict with your family and cultural background, creating only more stress.
When confronted with a rare or unusual combination of issues, it’s often helpful to ask ourselves how others in this situation have successfully managed it. If we have an unusual medical condition – we seek those who have been successful in dealing with the same condition. Seek others who have been successful in combining the two cultures and ask their guidance. They may also be able to intervene or provide support for family issues. You are obviously not alone in this situation.
At the same time, recognize that you may be experiencing depression. Your situation maybe emotionally exhausting. You’ll need to address your depression and rebuild your emotional strength as part of considering your options for the future. Hope this reply is helpful. Dr. Carver -
saramia
10Hello Dr. Carver.
I am a single mother and am very concerned about my 6 year old son. His father picks him up every other weekend for visitation. My son is under the mental control of his dad, who is a violent narcisstic abuser. The psychologist at school who deals with kindergarten children has been notified of my son’s father’s behavior. I also found a new counselor for my son to speak to away from the school environment.One “today” problem is that my dad is older (70s) and involved in my and my son’s life daily (2-4 times each day) and is getting more critical of me. He knows that his time is getting shorter – as by the occasional comments he makes to me and to my son, and he is frustrated that everything might not be ok if he can’t help. He is afraid that my son’s father will be successful in gaining custody of our son (which is a valid question for a concerned grandfather to have).
I have M.S. and am taking medications for depression and bipolar disorder.
You write about family support (the abused/controlled persons’ family) who are waiting for the abused to leave the situation, so that they may “rescue” them. Am I really nuts because my dad (in my opinion) has been controlled himself by my X and is now siding with him as far as “clean up your house or your son will go to live with his father”…
I do intend to respond to the Xs disgust of my cleaning habits by changing my household’s appearance. (for my son’s benefit, not for the Xs)I have read so many articles that I honestly feel overwhelmed!
Q—Does this happen often- that a family member joins the Stockholm Syndrome abuser’s “side” of the situation, and what do you suggest that I might do? I am doing what I think is best for my son, and will not fold under pressure, but I am not comfortable disagreeing with my dad because it is so stressful for me and for my son. I have esteem problems, but am intelligent enough to read and keep ideas in order…….
Aren’t I?
Thank you for any input.
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