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93 Responses to “More Personal Replies from Psychologist About Relationships with Losers”
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60
Dear Ann: Many folks try to remove themselves from their background or upbringing. They go to great lengths to improve and change their dress, language, and other aspects of their lifestyle. However, under pressure, when intoxicated, or when angry, their background can quickly surface. It may be helpful to suggest that the two of you can work together to minimize the return of the old habits, upbringing, and other traits that could make your future life uncomfortable. You’ll find that certain situations will trigger a return of the old background - in the same way some of his behaviors remind you of your mother. I have a friend who is a very professional nurse, unless she’s a tad tipsy, then “Mary Margaret” surfaces and you’d better call security. She has learned to effectively accept and deal with her “Mary Margaret” side. With your partner, if the major problem is the outbursts, I’d develop a strategy to deal with these outbursts. If you find them intolerable, then you may consider moving on. Most people have a difficult time totally removing their upbringing from their life.
Dr. Carver -
Ann259
Hello Dr. Carver
I am quite certain the man I am going to mention is a loser, however, I don’t believe my sister knows that. I am writing this as I am experiencing some guilt thinking that I am trying to stand in the way of what makes my sister happy, and I need to know if I am way off base here, or in fact, have something to be concerned about.
My sister began seeing “Joe’a couple of years ago, and has broken up with him I think 4 times. After each break-up, she dates, with no success, and inevitably goes back to him. He is not physically abusive, but very much abusive on an emotional level, yelling in public, criticising, etc. She even told me, the last time they broke up, that he was bad for her self esteem. They hadn’t seen each other for a couple of months, but he was always trying to initiate contact, email, even driving around her neighborhood. Again, after one bad month or two of dating, she starts to communicate with him. Now they have become best of friends, and in her own words, ‘I trust him completely’. (I might add here, that when they first met, he lied about his age, but got caught. He said he was 4 years younger than he was) My sister is seeing someone now whom she seems to really care about, and have been dating for a couple of months. When he isn’t around, ‘Joe’ comes over, hangs out, buys my sister dinners, movies, etc. He bought her diamond earrings for Christmas, which he told her to keep, and she didn’t return. I have to say here, that although I love her dearly, my sister is a bit of a ‘mooch’, and has a soft spot for money.
My sister maintains that their friendship is solely plutonic, however, he has expressed that he loves her still, and that THEY WERE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER. My
sister is not in love with him, and has told me that she discusses most everything with him, including her sexual relationship with her current boyfriend.??!!?? Maybe he really doesn’t love her because he is able to sit and listen to things like that? (I find that very odd) So now I come to the part that has me worried. She is moving in with ‘Joe”. He has convinced her to buy a house with him, live in it for two years, and then flip it to make some money. So, am I out to lunch to be concerned and should keep my opinion to myself, or is this a red flag, and I should be keeping a
watchful eye? I would be grateful for any advice!
Thank-you! -
Francisco58
Hi, Ann, I am not a psychologist, but I was with a big time loser for five years. She was manipulative controlling, abusive (mental and physical), and from your writings, he doesn’t seem to be like that. If you have broken up with him ten times, the reality is that you are not happy in the relationship, my ex did that a lot as an attempt to manipulate and control me–might you be doing that to him. You say he is very needy, but it also seems that you are very attached to him; if not, then you would never return to him. It seems as if you are trying to find any excuse to get rid of him or devalue his character–maybe you feel that you are not good enough for him. Remember when you love someone you love them unconditional, and compared to the other stories that people have shared here, your boyfriend seems normal. It just seems that you don’t like him and you just dont want to move on because of the attachment you have for him or the fear of being alone. Attachment can keep you in relationships that are not worth it, but to tell you the truth, your boyfriend doesnt sound like a loser, in actuality he sounds like a good man that most women here would Call a Good Man.
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Ann57
Thank you Dr. I feel frozen in space on this one. I cannot seem to get my head clear about this relationship. I went to a therapist the other day, she has me reading “The glass castle” and asked me what do I gain from sacraficing myself for others?
Yes, I am trying to work this out, I have been daying this guy two years, it is a companionship, a friendship - dinners, movies, golf, same healthclub, same community, discussions on spiritual topics - it is nightly and regularly although I do send him home at night- I’m in so deep with this. He is very nice to me, sweet and thoughtful most of the time……but now again, the very reasons I e-mailed you show up again from time to time, this time a new warning sign. Today on the golf course when he missed the ball he yelled “prostitute” and “pimp”. And called himself a f—— moron. When I question his foul language as we are in an private country club setting - I am so shocked as he dresses out of an Italian designer catalog and works hard at work and at his supposed vedic scriptures of ignoring material desires, his reply to his foul language including today the female word c___lapper? He claims it is old Brooklyn language he grew up with and is nothing but a joke?! I am appalled and yet, forgiving because I wonder if there are any quality people in the world left? I mean, I feel bad judging him because I don’t like to be judged, yet, I don’t do things like that.
Dr. how can I finally decide what is right and what is wrong. Your article does not cover machievelli and svengali and people who are a+ actors. I know he wants a life together……but, I am afraid of what I’d be in for and two years is long enough!
I will need to do drastic things like move away from here, etc. to get out of this if I decide to.
Looking for help now, don’t know why I’m so stuplified on this?(lack of self-worth?) Fear(of him?) Fear(of being alone)? He reminds me of my mother.Ugh -
56
Dear Ann: The characteristics I outline in the Loser article can be used as a relationship risk indicator. The more features present in your partner, the greater the risk in the relationship. In your situation, your partner has many features that make you uncomfortable. Breaking up 10 times is a good indication that this relationship may not be right for you. It also sounds like he overwhelms you with a sense of responsibility for his life and happiness. If you return to the relationship because you feel guilty or obligated, it’s probably a sign the relationship will not work in the long run. While people can often be manipulated by making them feel guilty or obligated, the resentment created by that manipulation tends to eventually ruin the relationship. Also, a partner who is excessively needy can emotionally exhaust us. Your sense of relief when he is absent suggests he is probably not a good fit for your goals and future. Dr. Carver
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Ann55
I still cannot tell if I’m dating a loser. Help! Its two years. I tried 10x to breakup with this guy. He’s as good as can be right now. He is elegant in regards to classic music and healthy food, classy dresser and smart, kind, caring and spiritually growing, and, I do mostly like our times together and miss him when we’re apart(or,that I miss haveing a special person)but……
on the other hand, he trys to take up as much of my time as possible, he admits he has to flirt harmlessly while at work or in a market, he makes good money at his job(that he admits he hates) he was unemployed and sick for two years before this two year job. He doesn’t have any creative goals like I do and I always get the feeling he wants me to be the one to make money for his future security. He bought me an expensive watch after we got back together. When we did break up for two weeks last nov. I felt so relieved and so happy and so full of possibilities for my own life. I hate how fast he drives and how sloppy he is around my house - I’m glad when he leaves. -
James54
Dr. Carver
Again (the reason I return back to this forum) learn and learn from your insight “narcissistic pride”. My new word (term) for the day. Yes, she has narcissistic pride and how she would hurt me (emotionally) if I started asking questions about her behavioral and “missing time”. And yes again (I see now that’s why) each time she called us. My son and I well would be upset! So both my children got to the point and said.. “enough is enough” and stop all contact with xNarcy (NPD)and it been 9 months of NC (no contact) with her… NC is the only thing that works with these PD’s…
Thanks again Dr. Carver… -
Michelle53
I remember seeing that “I am going to hurt you really bad” look Francisco mentioned. Only my ex was nearly 300 lbs, and some of which was muscle mass. It was one of the ways he was able to intimidate me on several occasions (and he’s used the look on other people… like the people at work while saying he understands how those people feel that go to work shooting all their managers and co workers… he’d say this at work, by the way, to those very co-workers and managers).
For the “memories”, I have two songs in particular that flash through my mind… and on purpose. One I don’t know the music too, but do know the lyrics. He kept repeating it in regards to me and the lyrics talk about “You want your perfection, you had your perfection.” That whole song pretty much reflects so much of the bull that he tried feeding me. In response, I think of the Evanescence song that says “can’t keep deceiving ourselves And I’m sick of the lie” and “Couldn’t take the blame. Sick with shame. Must be exhausting to lose your own game… You can’t play the victim this time.”
The most important line to me though is “How could I have burned paradise? How could I? You were never mine.”
So, in that way, I have his little game represented by his choice of song and my response in my choice of song. It keeps my mind straight for any of the bull he tries (either to contact me or to try to get me jealous… the the latter hasn’t worked yet).
Don’t know if that would be useful to anyone else, but it has helped me and was inspired by the articles Dr. Carver wrote about memories (the files and the garbage memories).
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Dear Francisco and Anna: In any emotional situation, one of the side effects is called “emotional memory”. The brain not only remembers individuals and events, but the emotions associated with them. That’s why we automatically smile when we hear our favorite songs. When we have been in an abusive relationship, remembering the Loser brings back the emotions associated with that person, making us cry and feel bad all over again. I’ve written an article on Emotional Memory on my website at http://www.drjoecarver.com. Emotional Memory is wonderful for the most part, allowing us the feel great moods simply by remembering wonderful events in our lives. When we’ve had miserable events, however, Emotional Memory has a dark side. This is one of the reasons Losers continue to contact us after the relationship is over. Those contacts return the victim to a state of emotional misery, depression, and low self-esteem - making them more susceptible to manipulation by the Loser.
When we were under the brainwashing influence of the Loser/Abuser, we developed an emotional position that we needed their approval and acceptance. When we think about them, even years later, our Emotional Memory brings that feeling to the surface, producing the sense that we miss them and long to be with them. Anyone who has quit smoking or drinking (alcohol) can tell you that memories of smoking/drinking or events that trigger memories actually produce a “taste” of the substance as well as a longing - despite their committment to stay away from those substances.
It’s for this reason that I don’t recommend “chat” sessions with Losers. I also recommend the use of press releases during difficult times as described in my articles. Once we realize how emotional memory works, we can protect ourselves from this normally-wonderful brain operation. It’s great for remembering the good events of our lives, but Emotional Memory becomes our enemy in other situations. Dr. Carver -
Anna51
Dear Dr. Carver,
I apologize for the confusion. I looked at Francisco’s post, and thought that a Dr. Joseph was a new Psychologist that was taking over. I have just realized that he was referring to you by your first name. I apologize for any confusion, again. Thanks,
Anna.
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