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93 Responses to “More Personal Replies from Psychologist About Relationships with Losers”
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Dear James, Our childhood background – family, culture, experiences, etc. – creates a model of what to expect in adult life for us. If our childhood contains instability, lack of affection, turmoil, violence, and abuse – it creates a situation where we have a high tolerance for those factors as an adult. When we meet someone with a personality disorder, for example, we have more tolerance and acceptance of their behavior, something that creates more problems for us as the relationship continues. Sadly, a high tolerance for high-risk factors doesn’t decrease the risk of these factors to the relationship. Tolerating a poisonous snake doesn’t prevent you from being bitten. It’s this same situation that produces problems with the children of a personality disorder. Some of the children accept the dysfunctional model and develop behavior and attitudes of the personality-disordered parent.
Your task is one of creating a new family model for the children – one that’s emotionally healthy. It sounds like you’re on the right track. Dr. Carver -
James
12Thanks Dr. I agree. Plus I getting feedback from my Boss, friends and family that I am doing a good job as a single parent. It help me feel better about myself to get good positive remarks/feedback from people I trust and love. Just one question, why in God’s name will a NPD not get help. Don’t they see the damage cause by their action and the outcome of these decisions. In short the cause and effect. Things in her life will never change without proper therapy. I tried many time to get us help, but she never tried to change anything. I would, but she didn’t. It just hurts me to see people make so many “bad choices” and do nothing to change it. Maybe she will, I hope she does! She just didn’t do it for this family…
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“Losers” and abusers rarely seek help for several reasons. First, they have behaved in this manner for many years. People often seek help due to a recent change in their mood, behavior, medical status, etc. The Loser can recognize the recent turmoil in their life, but no actual change in their attitudes or behavior. Second, they don’t accept responsibility for their behavior and when confronted, they blame their victims for causing the problems. If they break out your windows with a ballbat, they feel YOU created the situation by making them angry. If you hadn’t made them angry – you’d still have those windows. Third, no matter what they do, they can view themselves as a victim. Incarcerated criminals frequently protest the unfairness of their incarceration – giving no thought about how unfair they were to their victims. A murderer once told me “I don’t see why I got a life sentence when that family will get over her (victim) death in a few years. This isn’t fair!” Lastly, being a “victim” gives the Loser a sense of entitlement. They feel they deserve or have a perfect right to do what they do. If they abandon their children, family, friends, etc. – the situation made them do it. They can eventually justify any and all their behavior with this method of thinking.
In summary, an abuser or personality disorder is able to detach from almost any social situation, justifying their detachment as well as their need to move on to other options. They don’t seek treatment because they feel the situation is your problem, not theirs. They also follow the philosophy of “I’ll do what I have to do” which allows them to lie, harm, manipulate, etc. if that behavior serves their purpose or brings a situation under their control. Sadly, “Loser” individuals are only concerned with how a relationship or situation affects them, not others in the situation. Dr. Carver -
Antoaneta Hristova
14Dear Dr Carver,
I think I might be dating a loser for over 2 and a half years. I noticed already a year ago that something is just not right and now that I read your article, he seems to fit in 18 of the 20 points. The only difference is that he has never hurt me physically. But this still make him a loser, right? Right now, I am considering how to break up with him, something I should have done a long time ago(my dad and my friends told me so many times). I don’t think he will hit me or something but still I know he will make my life hell. He has no friends of his own, so he will call mine all the time. I expect him to call me every 5 minutes and make me feel terrible. Last year, I tried to break up, but he managed to get me back after a month or so. How can I make sure I move on? My parents are worried about me, my dad says I shouldn’t be left alone with him even for 5 minutes, but I don’t want to stress out my friends or make their lives hell too. I just don’t know how to handle this. He has planned every single day of “our life”. How do I tell him there is no such life? How do I make it clear it’s not another guy and it’s not my girlfriends trying to break us apart? I tried to prepare him somehow by elaborating on how unsure and confused I feel, but from his responses I judge that a break-out is an unthinkable option for him. The only thing I gained by this conversation was calling 3 times a day, saying “I love you” every 10 minutes and comments revealing jealousy. I just don’t think I can take it.
Can you please give me some advice?
Thank you. -
Rose
15I’ve been involved with a loser for 12 years now. We go up and down because he is so unhappy in his job. Our whole life revolves around whether or not his job is right. Plus he drinks too much. He also has applied for 38 jobs in the past 6 years out-of-state and I kept hanging with this loser because I thought we had something special. I have been such a fool. I really want to get rid of my loser, but don’t seem to have what it takes to get rid of him. I kicked him out in August, but he moved back in the beginning of November. My 14 year old son can’t stand him anymore.
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Rose16
After reading Dr. Carver’s comments, I wonder if I am the loser and my partner is the abuser. Our world revolves around him. He doesn’t give me any consideration when he applies for jobs all over the country. He uses job stress as his excuse to drink. And when things get really bad between us, he can walk away and forget about me like I mean nothing. I’m left feeling like there was something wrong with me. The only thing wrong with me is that I stayed with someone who isn’t a very nice person for way too long. He’s an alcoholic and a big whiner about his job. I am sick and tired of being stressed out because of his attitude toward his job and his drinking behavior. If I could snap my fingers and make him disappear, I would. When I told him this the other day, he was immediately ready to move out again. He’s gone for the weekend, and since there is not trust between us, I wonder if he is secretly planning on moving out again. It’s just the initial getting rid of him that I don’t look forward too. Plus I work at the same place as the JERK.
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The last several entries address a major problem – that of detaching from a Loser and/or abuser. Breaking up is very difficult when it’s not their idea. When the Loser is ready to move on however, you’re dropped like a hot rock.
For successful detachment, you must first make an Exit Plan. The plan may span several months and may include 1) building your self-esteem with counseling, 2) addressing your emotional burn-out with treatment, sometimes an antidepressant, 3) arranging for emotional, financial, and social support 4) reviewing your legal options, 5) seeing who can be of help such as parents or friends, and 6) begin your own emotional and social detachment.
Once you begin your Exit Plan, expect additional pressure from the Loser or Abuser. It’s called “breakup panic”. Guilt is the primary weapon with the other being overwhelming social pressure such as 70 phone calls, calling your friends, cards, etc. They hope to wear you out emotionally and agree to their terms just to stop the phone calls. Prepare to be hard and consistent in your response.
Lastly, STAY DETACHED! While most Losers and abusers will eventually leave, they return quickly to repressure you. Each time you let them back in, it’s harder to detach the next time because they can anticipate the exit plan. Staying detached may also involve promises to yourself such as never agreeing to a meeting, never making a decision without talking to a level-headed friend first, and never agreeing to a discussion of the good times (a guilt tactic). People can detach but you must remember that you are dealing with a relationship con-artist who will try a variety of methods to get their way. Dr. Carver -
James18
Dear Doctor, I found a forum that is helping me with my healing progress and would like to post it here. This forum helps people express there feeling about what is happening in thier life and helps them receive informatio and web links. Can you let me know if this would be alright? I will wait for your reply…
Thank you Dr Caver!James
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James19
Sorry about the typo’s I mean information and sorry about misspelling your name. DR. Carver.. But thanks
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Jim
20Dear Doctor, I have been involved and previously engaged to a wonderful woman that had spent four years living with a loser that has at least 17 of the 20 characterstics on your list (not the physically abusive though) We have had several disagreements throughout our year and half together and he always seemed to pop up. We got engaged and she moved in with me but very quickly moved out without and discussions or working on things. I just found out that he never stayed away and kept manipulating her to leave. He is a former military person (special ops and expert at control) and had her car bugged and tracked her when they were together. She lived with him for four years and her and her children bonded with his children. His ex-wife died of alcholism at 40 although there is speculation about his contribution to the situation. My ex and I now talk a lot and she realizes what she did was wrong and wants to be together but doesn’t know how to get rid of him. Unfortunately, she let him back in her life but they live in separate houses and she has only seen him once a week. He uses the kids to manipulate and gain access to her. She admittedly is weak and easily manipulated but fortunately doesn’t need any financial support from anyone. She is always concerned and paranoid about him following her or even bugging her house because he always shows up wherever she is at and in the past always surfaced when we had issues as if he knew when to appear. I sent her the links to your articles and she read them and she believes that the only way to ever be rid of him is if he leaves on his own. She has even considered moving a 1000 miles away just to be away from him. She went to therapy years ago (same one as his ex-wife) and the therapist told her it would kill her if she stayed with him. I suggested therapy and she may go after the holidays. I think she is afraid of the emotional stress of therapy. I am supporting her as much as I can through phone conversations and occasional interaction but she is concerned about what he would do if he found out. It is even more difficult because her kids are ok with him and she has a hard time detaching from his kids. She is starting the process of detachment from him but I am afraid that he will never give up because he made that statement. What can be done in this complicated situation?
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