while she was leaving me in the second time, i offered her to apply psychologist again. she refused strongly by stating that she was okay and not sick.

after second seperation, she continued to contact to me but i ignored her.

in one of her email, again she mentioned about psychologist application.

After her movement,her man sent too many sms,email,phone calls to invite her back.She couldnt avoid herself to answer them.And in the NY evening,she asked me to take back to him.I did.

I didnt reply any of her msgs after she left.She started the contact to me next day after leaving me.She continued 2-3days but I ignoreed her.But in one msg she said she applied to a psychologist.Then I started to help her as much as I could.I found this web page based on her comments about her man.And I understood my fault by putting pressure on her.

After psychologist visit,she understood that she wanted to go on with me.(psyc found some syptom with her but i donno exactly)Then we started our relation again.This time I didnt put any pressure on her not to repeat my fault.But she couldnt tell the truth to her man that she was with me and we had a sexual life this time.She always kept this as a secret(she assumes her man as a father of her).After second seperation from her man,the man continued to invite her back.After 2 weeks she left me again.I stopped all my contact to her not to effect her life more.

Before meeting me,the man didnt want to talk about future with her.The man offered group sex,critise her dressing and culture etc.(The lady ignores the realtionship of that man with prostitutes.)But after me,he started to talk about having baby.Then the lady left the flat second time and he offered marriage and everythnig to her.No group sex,no critisim about culture and dressing.

The lady never wants to take the responsibility of her action.She always tries to put the responsibility on others like “I wish one of his friend tells I left him and he shouldnt distrub me more.”.She said she got the responsibility of life in the age of 14 and she was very storng person before him.

When i met her,her man was abroad for 5weeks.they moved to a new flat with him and as soon as they moved,he left the country.So she set up the life in that flat by herself during 5weeks.I met her in the 3rd week.I guess she feels that this flat belongs to her.

During our start-up period,she tried to stop my relation 3-4 times.I was waiting on standby and she started the relation back again with me.

She cant talk to me on the phone near him.She scares although he knows that I am just a normal friend of him.

Now I really wonder what to do.Why is she contacting with me after she left me?Why does she want to go back to that man?Is it a game?
BR.Ferit

Thank you for the comment, and also thank you for your concern.
I am doing fairly well on separating from my ex, I am in a new relationship now, doing ok I could say. My only concern is that these kinds of experiences are very hard to forget, even if in my case there way no formal bond between me and my ex, no children, etc. After my experience I realized, that i have become more reserved and cautious in my present relationship, and my self-esteem is in a quite sorry state but building up steadily.
So once again thank you for the concern and the comment.

:)

Thank you for your comments. But if I’m truthful, Yes, it was scary, but my daughter had totally given in anyway. She knew there was no way she would ever win against him. He is far too good. (at acting that is).

The list of things my daughter has endured in the last 13 years is enough to send anyone to a breakdown, her husband being just a part of it.

She is now not the same person. Don’t get me wrong, she looks the same, sounds the same, but is not the same. (not that I would expect her to be. Your life cannot be turned upside down, again and again and expect to come out of it unscathed).

She just doesn’t care anymore, it’s as though she has taken on a some of his traits and behaviors.

This sounds horrible I know, but she has become selfish, putting herself before everyone, even the children – so out of character.

If you had heard some of the things her daughter has said to her, and witnessed what she has done you might understand. It’s as though she is feeling scorned by the children. She feels that all the love she had for them meant nothing to them.

And for all the awful, selfish, deliberately hurtful things their father did, they loved him and appeared to hate her. It’s as though they liked being mistreated, because when their Mom removed them from the hurt and pain, they dumped their Mom and went back to him.

Does that make any sense to you?

And now she will let both the children do exactly what they like, there are no boundaries, because she is terrified they will leave her again.

I tell her that they didn’t go (I say they, because this is the second time she has gone through this) because she set boundaries, and didn’t love her. The went because they were manipulated, emotionally blackmailed and frightened. But she can’t or won’t see it.

I just do not know how to help any of them.

My daughter insists, she’s fine, even though everyone who knows and loves her knows otherwise.

The children are exactly the same as their mom, and insist they are fine as well.

Is this normal under the circumstances, and will it just improve with time?

May I first say that Wendy is 100% in her response. Exactly as she describes, the granddaughter MUST invest in the father and his behavior to gain his favor. In survival mode, she knows that he has the potential to totally reject and punish her, unlike mother and grandmother. Being with her father was an all-or-nothing situation and once she realized the consequences of her move, she had no choice but to switch to the “nothing” strategy to get home.

I’d allow her to ventilate but don’t ask too much about her custody with Dad. Over time, as she calms down, she will begin to compare the two home environments. More and more information about her feelings, rationale, and experience will slowly surface. Also keep in mind that she may not be able to articulate her reasons for that bad decision. Sons and daughters are often placed as a rope in a tug of war between battling parents. As my assistant Wendy mentions, it’s now time to rebuild and recover. On the plus side, Mom and Grandmother have the love and understanding to make that possible.

Wendy is also on-target when she recommends the use of humor. I’d read my Emotional Memory article where you’ll find that humor is very powerful in short-circuiting memories of traumatic events. By referring to father’s antics with “There he goes again” you are relieving the granddaughter of any obligation to explain his behavior, make sense of it, or even make excuses. If you have pets, when they poop on the floor you just laugh and think…”Hey, he’s a dog.” In both situations, recognize the behavior, laugh about it, don’t take it personally, and move on. Happy Holidays
Dr. Carver

PS: Wendy, when you’re ready for your doctoral internship in clinical psychology, let me know.

Rest assured, EVERYONE’s head hurts who try to make sense of the actions of people with this behavior pattern.

Your granddaughter is being pushed to and fro – not by you and your daughter but by her natural desire for change, and by the actions of her father. Teenagers form very strong allegiances as a survival strategy, and she has been in a very stressful situation. She has likely fought a losing battle to stay on good terms with her father – initially being rewarded for coming to stay with him, and gradually losing his favour again – a process she had no control over. It’s quite natural that when she made the switch back to her mother, she made it suddenly and now can’t stand the thought of her dad.

With loving, consistent attention from you and your daughter she will calm down. I admire you and your daughter for following the strategy of ceasing to reward the father for his actions. It must have been very scary, but at least it didn’t take long to work. But the main thing is that your granddaughter is back home.

Try to ignore the antics of her father. Perhaps you might even bring humor into it: “there he goes again!”.

Best wishes,
~Wendy

It was your articles, and others that made us take the gamble.

But now, I don’t know if I’m being paranoid, but I am really suspicious about what is really going on her.

I feel that’s it’s very strange that three weeks ago, my grandaughter did not waver in her desire to live with her father, knowing that if he won custody she would not be able to come back and would be even more under his control, and had cut off her escape route.

Now she has nothing decent to say about her father, has blocked his number and says she never wants to see him again.

But which version is true?

If she can go against him now, why not three weeks ago ?

If he wanted rid of her, why did he try to get her to go back, by continuing to tell her that her Mom never loved her.

I can’t help but believe something is going on in the background that
we are not privvy to.

I still think, he’s behind it and am fearful what he will do, because he never, ever loses. I feel my daughter and granddaughter will pay for this.

Or he is still using my granddaughter to get to her Mom.

I would appreciate your opinion on this.

Quite honestly my head hurts trying to make any sense of it

Thank you so much for this site, I only wish I’d found it years ago. It’s so educational.

You’ve used the technique I call “Hold On Loosely” in my Stockholm Syndrome article. Losers and Personality Disorders are totally selfish and self-justifying – but they’re almost never good parents. By taking yourself out of the picture, he had no “enemy” to justify his misbehavior – no one to torment – only the obligation for childcare. When Losers/Abusers fight for child custody – it’s always to punish or control the mother – not in the best interest of the child and not out of loving concern.

While they may initially win a victory and obtain custody – that’s not the victory they want. They were trying to punish those around them, using the child, and manipulate the situation. They actually have little interest in being a full-time parent.

I’m glad your strategy went well. It’s tough to carry out but it does work. The child may need counseling to repair the emotional damage of the experience. What a nice holiday present. Dr. Carver