“The Mystery of Loving an Abuser” Comments, Page 4
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174 Responses (2 Discussion Threads) to “The Mystery of Loving an Abuser”
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Dear Kim: You and your husband are involved in one of the most tragic aspects of Stockholm Syndrome. The biological mother holds the entire family hostage to her threats and manipulations. She requires both 100% attention and control. As you note, the husband and children must accept her orders or suffer the consequences. Individuals such as this are typically personality disorders (PD), most often diagnosed as borderline or histrionic personality. Individuals with PD have basic characteristics: 1) They never accept personal responsibility for their behavior – someone else or a situation caused them to behave the way they do. 2) They are always a victim – no matter what happens. It’s the old “I beat you because I love you! So beating you makes me feel worse then you.” But they still beat you! 3) They are threatened by everyone around them and feel entitled to protect themselves at all costs. 4) They have “narcissistic pride” and feel entitled to set up, hurt, emotionally abuse, or cause problems to anyone who defies their desires and commands. They then blame the victim for creating the situation. If she misbehaves at a school function – it’s your fault for being there and upsetting her! 5) They have no common-sense boundaries for their behavior or threats. They can tell sensitive children that they will disown them for liking the step-mother for example. If a child threatens to leave, they threaten suicide. 6) They have absolutely no problem hurting and ruining the lives of those around them. They separate their spouses from their family, damage their children, and create legal and social difficulties without the slightest twingle of guilt or remorse.
In your situation, the children are trapped with this PD parent, creating the SS situation. Obviously, the children are gradually detaching themselves psychologically from the mother but can’t afford (yet) to separate themselves physically (due to disown and suicide threats probably). To fight it in court is rarely successful. Would a child testify against a mother who threatens to disown them (and their future) or who threatens to move or kill herself?
To help the children, I’d use the recommendations in my article. Remember that the children are not keeping away from you – they are avoiding serious emotional abuse. They know you will still be there when they’re old enough to detach permanently. Hang on Loosely and continue your present strategy. The more you behave normally, the more disturbed the mother appears to the children and public. At this point, the children can’t afford to move in your direction as they are held hostage by her threats, purchases, support, and guilt.
The children typically mature and gradually will make more contact with you – in a cautious manner however.
If you’re interested in some of the controlling tactics used by a Personality Disorder, you might want to read my article on identifying Losers on this website. Hope this reply is helpful. Dr. Carver -
Deborah Cooney
32My comment consists of a quest for Dr. Carver. Here is my question: What can I do with my 2 sons ages 15 and 17 when they return from their Father’s custody of almost 2 years? Please be aware that I had sole custody and on June 15, 2005 without a hearing my children were taken from me, and I was given an Order of Protection based solely upon [personal details removed]‘s custodial opinanted report. My children lived with me from birth, and were never separated until June 15, 2005. The court system did not care about rippping my 2 loving boys from the stable environment and placing them both with their father. To further add harm I have not been allowed any form of contact during this period of time. Just recent my Attorney was informed by the Child Rep. that we will probably beat out the report and get custody returned. The Child Rep. is worried about weaning my children back to me, even though she is aware that they both had been BRAINWASHED for 2 years by their father. Please help me. I would greatly appreciate a name of someone to take my 2 sons to in order to seek treatment. I am trying to be proactive about this. Do you know of a specialist in the Chicago, IL area? How ironic, none cared about my boys when they were ripped from their stable home environment, being with me up to June 15, 2005. So what is the difference now? Thank you. Sincerely, Deborah
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Dear Deborah: Your legal experience seems unusual – no hearings, a no-contact order for 2 years, ages of your children, etc. In Ohio (US), children over age 12 are allowed to select their parent of custody for example. At the same time, the courts can make some unusual decisions. Nothing surprises me anymore.
If your children are returned to you, some guidelines: 1) They will not return as the children you knew two years ago. You will need to form a new relationship with them. It won’t be “just like old times”. 2) The children will arrive with much apprehension for a variety of reasons. They may not fully understand the custody situation or may have been told negative information. Allow them to gradually warm up and ask questions or talk rather than questioning them about their last two years. 3) Be proactive and arrange family counseling to assist in the transition and return to your custody. 4) The children are old enough to have input into how they are transitioned into your community, your family, your friends, etc. Listen to them. 5) Your children are the closest link to your ex and for this reason, you may find yourself venting anger toward your ex in front of the children. Vent with a therapist, not your children. 6) Add visits by people to your remodeled family to act as monitors such as pastors, relatives, neighbors, etc.
I don’t know of any specialists in your area but I would recommend working with someone who has a background in family therapy. Keep in mind that your children have formed new friends and connections over the past two years. They will be distressed that they have been disconnected, no matter which parent is involved.
Hope this reply is helpful. Dr. Carver -
Susanne Jones
34Hello Dr. Carver:
I am involved with a man who is a victim of SS AND obsessive ex-wife syndrome. His ex-wife will not disengage from his life and move on, despite the fact that they have been divorced for over six years. They have no children together, although they DID have a standard poodle which he took care of for 2 years after the divorce and which she used to control him as if the dog WERE a child. She has recently actually gone and gotten a job at the same place at which he works (he is a domestic violence perpetrator behavior modification leader and she is a criminal defense attorney with no law degree), saying that she needs the experience in her line of work. Despite the fact that she must make more as an attorney, she got a $15 an hour job to be a co-facilitator with him in his groups. Her most recent obsessive travesty was to rush down to be with his dying mother, get herself intricately involved in setting up a trust for his mother’s assets, which SHE (the ex-wife) administers and from which he gets money only if SHE consents. She claimed that she was the only one who knew his mother’s dying wishes, which she was unable to share with him and his brother until after their mother’s death. He buys into and allows her to continue controlling him and repeatedly characterizes me as the dangerous troublemaker if I ever object to any of her control tactics. She has no interest in being intimate with him or having a true relationship with him, but she DOES want to continue controlling him (as she did throughout their marriage) and she does not want to let him go. He is the only person in her orbit who is extremely impressed with her and continues to tell her so, all the while telling me they are just friends. He did once say that he tried to get rid of her but couldn’t, so he has just resigned himself to having her in his life. I have a very busy professional life which requires a lot of travel, so I am often away and have been waiting for the day that he will “come to his senses” and we can pursue a normal relationship. In the meantime, all of his belongings are in one of my houses, we spend approximately three months of the year living together, and the rest of the time I am just required to sit by and accept his ex-wife’s continuing financial and emotional control of him. I have been trying to observe your advice, and maintain “loose” contact — letting him know I am there for him without being too critical of her. All of his friends and associates think that his continued association with her is sick and cannot understand why I put up with it. I fear that she will NEVER let go and move on. She is now in charge of his getting almost $400,000 from the sale of his mother’s condo in California and I feel certain that she will use this to maintain control of him possibly for the rest of his life. Am I an idiot to continue to try to be there for him and should I move on? Aside from this relationship with his ex-wife, he is not abusive to me, we have many interests in common and if a meteor fell on her head, I think we could have a good relationship.
Thanks for your help.
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Dear Susanne: Some sad news. The odds of being hit by a meteorite are 182 trillion to one. Also…your partner is not a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, he’s a willing participant. I suspect you’re dealing with a tag-team here. He maybe supporting the situation for a variety of reasons but he’s not interested in detaching or even minimizing her contact with him. She has no reason to let go…and HE has no reason to let go as well. He isn’t uncomfortable with the situation. It’s working for him.
While we can clearly see her obvious controlling behaviors, we need to be aware of his subtle behaviors and decisions that keep her in his life…and your life!
It sounds like you’re in a partial relationship here. He’s never made a complete commitment as yet. She’s not on “back burner” – she’s on the side burner.
From your description, I doubt the situation will change. Now that there’s money involved, it may even be less likely to change. It may even get worse. You’ll notice he didn’t legally oppose her guardianship – and she was no longer in the legal line for such authority.
I’d recommend emphasizing the need for a detachment from her and a commitment to you for a few months. If it doesn’t happen – then that’s telling you how the future will be. At present, you’re the only one uncomfortable here. You clearly deserve more than a partial relationship. Dr. Carver -
Allie
36Hi Dr Carver
After reading the article on Stockhom Syndrome I have realised for the first time in seven years what has been going on in my life.
Thank you, you have given me the confidence to get away from my abuser.
Allie
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Cowgirl Annie
37Dr. Carver
I posted back in September 2006. My story has not improved, and my son has become more entangled in her spell. He has had no contact with any of his family, and it has been over a year since we have seen him. He lost his job, and had to move in with her family. We kept getting ugly emails from them in which his wife would lash out at me telling me how much my son hates me more and more every day. She let me know that he had joined the Navy, and that I would never see him again as long as I lived. I tried so hard to keep from responding because each time I tried to calm things down the situation would get worse. I reached out to them only to have him open the front door, and she would jerk him back from the door and slam the door in my face. My husband went to where they were living with her parents at Thanksgiving only to have nobody answer the door. Then in December, my Son left for boot camp in Chicago, and he made no attempt to contact us. Only then, once he was gone she contacted me by email to let us see the Grandchildren. I set up a neutral meeting place at children’s pizza parlor. That way the children who did not know us could have activities to enjoy. That is when she told us that she was 5 months pregnant, and she was going to move up to Chicago to be near my Son after he graduates from boot camp. I had received a letter from the Navy congratulating me on my Son joining the Navy. I was given his address to write from the Navy Commander, so I wrote to my Son telling him that I loved him and wished him well in his Navy career. He never wrote back, and when his wife found out that I had sent him letters she blew up, and sent me UGLY cruel emails. She claimed that I had tricked her, and that her good intentions were destroyed by my writing to my Son. After boot camp, he moved into the Navy School, and I was unable to get his address due to security reasons. His Grandmother died, and we sent word to him by means of the American Red Cross. The American Red Cross contacted me back the next day to let me know that he was told. He never made any attempt to call, but he sent an ugly email calling me names and his tone was totally disrespectful and full of hate. He has burnt his bridges with everyone in the family, so it is not just his mother and father that he has turned against. My question is how can someone change so much? That is cutting all ties with family. Is he really in love, and can her type of love make up for destroying his past? I have tried to move on, as I have two other loving adult children and a loving husband. As a mother, I spent my life trying to do right in raising my children. But, failing one child makes me feel like a failure. I can’t get past thinking I did something wrong.
Cowgirl Annie -
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Dear Annie, You didn’t do anything wrong if everyone else in the family is loving. As our children age, our parental influence decreases with each year. In your son’s case, he has become involved with a dysfunctional family who enjoy drama, crisis, and resentment. They love turmoil and hating…and especially enjoy venting their rage. The ability to vent rage makes sadly-pathetic people feel powerful. It gives them a senses of purpose while healthy folks focus on love, family, their goals, and loving relationships.
At the same time, all this hate and resentment is a form of emotional cancer that is still present – even when a target (like you) is out of the picture. His “sweetheart” is very mean-spirited, something that will be turned on your son in the future. These relationships are on a self-destruct timer – they just don’t know it. As a parent, we “hang on loosely” and provide support at a safe distance. When the meltdown happens, we’ll be there.
She punished you severely for violating the first rule of a mean-spirited controller – EVERYTHING must go through her! By contacting your son directly, you went around HER. In the future, send polite emails to HER, or to both at the same time, wishing your son or “them” well in his career or with the new baby.
Keep in mind she will recontact you with another offer. You will be told you’re being given a “second chance” because she is so gracious. In truth, people full of hate need to have someone to hate and fight with so she’ll set something up again.
Your son joining the Navy is also in your favor. Your son will compare stories with his new friends and you’ll come out on top. While his sweetheart can control family opinions and comments, she can’t control the opinions of 2000 sailors. Be patient.
Your son has burned bridges with the family to appease his mean partner. In his heart, he knows those can be rebuilt. With her relocating to be with him…away from her family…a major change of circumstances is likely. Good luck and hang in there. Dr. Carver -
John
39Dear Dr Carver,
Your articles have been excellent in helping me to realise more about the situation I am in, which is with a woman that has pretty much ‘Stockholmed’ me in many of the ways you described. I know I have to get out BUT I am very worried about losing contact with my child, who is only 2 and a half years old. I am also worried about what will happen to my step-kids who have to deal with her temper and moods, etc.
I wondered what advice you would have for someone wanting to get out of a relationship but feeling stuck because of wanting to protect the children? She is also threatening to stop me seeing my son if the relationship ends because I am apparently ‘not being a good father to him’. I don’t want to lose contact with him as I love the little guy so much.
Id be very very grateful for your advice.
thank you
John -
40
John: Her threats about the child suggest that the idea of ending the relationship has been considered. As I mention in the article, making an exit plan often includes months of preparation if not discussion. Those “what if” discussions about the children are often done over several months. People often threaten in situations where they feel backed in a corner. The insecurity produced by ending a relationship often produces harsh threats. These are best addressed by using almost “business” discussions over time – discussions that assure continued contact with the children, a nonhostile relationship, and continued supportive contact with step-children if appropriate. Many folks can see the end of the relationship in sight but don’t know what to do. Each time the topic is mentioned, a nonhostile discussion can allow both partners to deal with the important issues rather than the threats. Dr. Carver
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