“Are You Dating a Loser?” Comments, Page 4
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82 Responses to “Are You Dating a Loser?”
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31
Dear Steve: Behaviors and attitudes associated with the personality disorders I describe in my Loser article can surface suddenly as you found in your situation. Depression, especially post-partum depression, often produces Loser characteristics as the individual is angry, bitter, resentful, and hypersensitive. In PPD, the spouse often symbolizes the new, overwhelming sense of responsibility placed on the new mother. You may find yourself the target of her anger and resentment for this reason.
Post-Partum Depression can be treated, typically with meds and therapy in combination. As the depression decreases, original personality features can return. Sadly, millions of people live with moderate, yet chronic depression, often medicating themselves with alcohol, sleeping pills, and other attempts to distract them from their misery. They frequently assume a position of “It’s just my life!”
Often a trusted third party can be enlisted to help, such as the family physician, OB/GYN or pediatrician.
Rather than focusing on depressed mood or anger – which produces defensiveness – focus on the uncomfortable physical symptoms of depression such as sleep and appetite problems, poor concentration, and social withdrawal. Folks are more likely to seek medical consultation for insomnia or poor concentration than sad mood or irritability. Obviously, alcohol use will only make matters worse.
The fact that she can maintain her control around others and your son suggests that her depression has not reached a severe level. If her depression intensifies, it will become a problem in all relationships – not just the marital relationship.
It is also helpful to seek counseling for yourself to address the specific issues in the family. Your desire to improve the situation may serve as a good example and model, allowing her to seek help as well. Dr. Carver -
Joe
32Thank you for the great article it has enlightened me. I have been married to a loser for 18 years. I was 27 and she was 23 (with two childeren from two different fathers) when we were married, I was her third marriage and she was my first. She would always get angry with me for no reason and tell me I didn’t kiss her enough, hold her hand enough, or be romantic enough. I’m a very calm and levelheaded person and when she would get really angry she would break things and on a few occasions she even hit me. I ‘m very close to my family and she would have nothing to do with them. She told me they hated her because of her background and thought very little of me and I needed to defend her and not be nice to them. We ended up moving 500 miles away from them! One minute she can be so sweet and the next she is ready to rip my head off. She came from a very abusive family where lies, deceit, physical and emotional violence were a normal way of life. Ten years into our marriage she started having affairs (3 that I know of) and she always had a way of reeling me back in. We separated 3 months ago and I met with an attorney 3 days ago to file for divorce. When she found out, she got into my house placed notes around the house asking for one more chance, changed the desktop picture on my computer to a picture of us happy at the beach and constantly emails me and leaves messages on my cell phone telling me that she is not desperate, but she really loves me and knows that we can work it out, that I’m her soul mate. She says things that bring back such happy memories when we had great times together. Tonight she was at my door and she heard me talking to my dad about her. When I opened the door she collapsed and started crying making a scene. I brought her in (big mistake) and she threw her keys at me while still crying. She said I betrayed her by talking to my dad and she left. I heard a noise outside and she was sprawled out at the bottom of the stairs crying. I went to help her and she picked herself up, got in her car and drove away so fast I thought she would hit someone. I’m waiting for her to threaten to kill herself like she did on one occasion when I left her for a night after finding out about one of her affairs. I felt so guilty about filing for divorce, but after reading your article, I realize it’s her problem and not mine. I will never be able to change her behavior but I can change mine! I have a friend that went through a similar relationship and her along with my family have been a big support.
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Joe33
Dr. Carver,
A follow up to my previous post: Last night around midnight I get a text message from my daughter saying if I care my wife is in the hospital. I went down there and she said my son and daughter had to bring her to the hospital because when she fell at my house she hit her head and she started throwing up at my son’s apartment. They rushed her to the ER and she told me the doctor said her brain was swollen from the fall. She didn’t even have any scrapes on her. She started a scene at the hospital raising her voice when the nurse came by telling me how this was all my fault. My kids were gone from the hospital and they won’t return my calls. Does it ever end?
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34
Dear Joe: You are experiencing the panic detachment phase I described in my article. They are prone to a variety of dramatic scenes, manipulations, and accusations. The manipuations are often guilt-oriented and they attempt to pull in as many innocent family and bystanders as possible. The hospital scene is common as are suicidal threats, development of vague illnesses, etc.
Does it ever end? For the individual with severe “Loser” characteristics – Not Likely. This is the way they live. As you mention, many have a family or personal background that makes these behaviors a typical day. The intense drama and emotional abuse can end for you although the behaviors will continue during the divorce panic. You will need to maintain a level head during this time and recognize that your children are also caught in this emotional blender. The Loser often uses children against their spouse and demonstrates little concern for how that impacts on the children. Keep in mind that the children have lived this way for years as well. Mother will drop a dramatic crisis in their lap, adding “I have to call you because your father won’t listen!” It will take them more time to understand, at which point you and the children will need to develop a strategy on how to deal with the behaviors mentioned in the article. Maintain your support links with family and friends although anyone who helps will be accused of trying to breakup the marriage. Because you talked to your Dad (as most people do by the way), he will now be the problem – not years of affairs, temper tantrums, emotional drama, etc. Losers never accept that their behavior creates their problems. Dr. Carver -
Joe35
Thank you Dr. Carver for your reply. My wife has been over a couple of times after the fall down the stairs and now is back in the I will do anything to get you back mode. I have taken your advice from your article and tried to appear boring and burned out showing little emotion. I made one big mistake though; she wanted one last hug and I gave it to her and told her she needs to let me go. She left and I must have received 10 emails and phone text messages that night (which I did not answer) from her telling me that she felt something from me when I hugged her and all is not lost. You were absolutely right about being careful not to show any possibility of hope or they see it as a weakening in you and increase their pressure on you. I’m a teacher and have the rest of the summer off so I’m going to visit my family for the rest of the month. I need to do this to keep my sanity, while typing this I have received three phone text messages from her! Thanks again your article sure made me see things more clearly!
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36
Dear Joe: Once you’ve made the decision to leave, you must be consistent in your approach. It’s like playing a slot machine. Ten no-pay pulls on the handle and you’re ready to walk away and give up. But, if that last pull pays six coins…then you think the machine is warming up. You not only play longer but you start feeling that the machine is flexible. The jackpot just takes more playing. Hugs, intimacy, a date for old times sake, etc. – all can reset the detachment process. It’s important to remember that nobody plays an unplugged slot machine.
I’m glad the article was helpful. Dr. Carver -
Janet
37Hello Dr. Carver,
I am involved with a partner who has classic symptoms of NPD, Bipolar and BPD, along with some smidgens of Schizophrenia and Anti-social Personality Disorder. We have been arguing more and more lately. We’ve been together for 2 years. Due to the arguing, I’ve insisted that we seek therapy, and do some 12-step work. We are currently doing this, but after reading more about the ‘Loser’ I can’t help but to wonder if the therapy is just a way to ‘pacify’ me. I also have many disorders which I’m trying to work through. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!! -
38
Dear Janet, Each of those conditions in your partner produces a level of risk in your relationship. When you mention that you are working on your own mental health concerns, the issue becomes more risky. When both folks have mental health concerns, the relationship is often highly stressful & unstable. Worse, the partner can’t provide any stability or support due to their active conditions. It’s like being in a boat and using a hurricane as an anchor. You can expect a high level of continuous turmoil and arguing. I’d recommend a focus on gaining your own emotional and social stability first. 12-Step and other programs may provide you support and guidelines as you try to stabilize your life and current situation. Your partner may never be able to achieve a level of stability, especially when considering conditions such as Antisocial and Borderline Personality. At some point as you improve, you may be forced to detach to protect your health and progress. Dr. Carver
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JD
39I read the context of your article. It is informative but nonetheless generalized. The symptomoligy is not given any form of time reference or circumstances that would be reasonable for a human to behave as you have listed.
Everybody @ 1 point or another has had several of the “symptoms” on your list. As an example someone who may have had a recent major trauma or death in the family may act as you have mentioned. Not to mention any one who may have suffered domestic or urban violence. Not to mention scores of heroes such as firefighters, policeman, and military men who have obviously suffered mass trauma in their line of work. So these people are losers?
One part in particular leaves much to chance. In reference to the family/friends not liking someone. What if the family/friends are a bunch of people who are drug users, violent, and just plain jealous of the BF. These ARE realities. And your article ignores these points. I realize making a stance on a subject is difficult to keep balanced.
There is also a lack of information as to how people who may act that way receive professional help. Or encourage their loved ones to get them help. Simply dumping someone does not encourage anyone to do anything in reference to his or her behavior and is more likely to fuel the behavior.
I agree that someone with a long lifelong history of the behavior posted maybe someone who is simply being irresponsible. And yes if it obvious the person is not going to change/seek help within a reasonable amount of time. It may be time for the individual to evaluate if the relationship is within their skill, energy, or understanding level. Now of course if there is flat out DV, rape, or obvious mental abuse then yes the individual should distance himself or herself right away.
I think the article should be label “Does your Boyfriend/Girlfriend have issues” For sure add a help section. Certainly define obvious abuse. Such as “The Ten Signs when you know you should have already left”
There is just one more thing. What if the reader has poor self-image and then relates all the information to themselves. Some people who are major depressed or just victims of bad luck could respond to the title “loser” badly. Killing himself or herself or hurting someone else. It is why I suggest you add professional help links, resources, options, etc… Being a mental health professional I feel this is a bit irresponsible on your behalf not to at least suggest they get some form of help. Doesn’t everybody deserve the chance to improve themselves and not simply to be labeled as social trash?
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40
Dear JD: While it’s true that many folks may have the symptoms I’ve listed – under certain brief conditions – most don’t have them constantly or to the degree that they harm people with them. If you are a victim of this type of personality, you quickly recognize that these behaviors are constantly present and used against you. As I’ve mentioned, this is a personality disorder and not something that is connected to a recent death or trauma. In my experience, readers can separate chronic personality features from those of people reacting to a trauma in their life.
This is also true when it comes to families. Healthy folks can quickly identify bizarre or “troubled” families. While these are realities as you say, these situations are actually very rarely encountered. An entire family that is disturbed quickly makes folks run the other way.
The individual identifed in this article – the Loser, abuser, controller, etc. – rarely has problems with self-esteem. They tend to be narcissistic and deny responsibility for their behavior. I do receive a rare, angry email from individuals who have most of my Loser symptoms. In each one, they are angry that I have identified the pattern and made it public. Some chose to blame me for a breakup rather than recognize that they have been abusive, intimidating, selfish, controlling, and violent. It’s never their fault.
You are correct that I have not addressed possible options for treatment for these personalities. This article focuses on the victims. The follow-up article, Love and Stockholm Syndrome, is directed at helping the families and friends of the victim. A future article will address the impact of having a parent with these symptoms.
I have recommended options for those who have these behaviors and want to change. It’s helpful to print the Loser article, circle the symptoms they want to change, and submit the list to a counselor. That’s often a great starting point. Dr. Carver
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